Storm Skiing 9/30/2026: Indy Pass & Snowvana Founder Doug Fish on Megapass Proliferation and the Future of Ski Shows

Who

Doug Fish, founder of the Snowvana ski show and Indy Pass

Date Recorded

Sept. 30, 2026

About Snowvana

Snowvana is a “winter kick-off festival” (a ski show) scheduled for a four-city 2026 tour:

Use the code “storm26” to snatch a free ticket here for any 2026 Snowvana show.

Check out the list of free and discounted lift tickets available onsite at each show.

Why I interviewed him

If we trust the metonymic origin story of our surnames, then Doug Fish is a descendant of “a catcher or seller of fish,” probably sometime before the invention of the printing press. I cannot think of anything that I understand less than fishing. Specifically, how a person can be good at it. My experience with fishing is that you cast a line in the water and nothing happens while you get drunk. But my buddy’s brother could go out on Sanford Lake in a rowboat and return an hour later surrounded by like 50 fish. Every damn time. And I was always just astonished like whatever inherent traits you need to be good at fishing that dude has them.

I don’t know if Doug Fish is good at fishing, or if he even likes it. I do know that he’s good at skiing, and that he likes it. And whatever fishing ability he may or may not have inherited from Alabaster Fish of the 12th Century, he certainly possesses some of the traits of great fishermen: patience, instinct, and the ability to do hard things that no one else can figure out.

Organizing and launching the Indy Pass is probably one of the great achievements of modern skiing, in that it proved that any ski area - and therefore nearly any skier - could join the multimountain pass club. While Indy wasn’t a novel or new concept, Fish was able to achieve the heretofore impossible task of organizing far-flung ski areas into a coalition with patience, persistence, and a low-key, no-pressure approach devoid of Big Ski’s ego.

Once Fish sold Indy Pass, he tried something even harder: replicating the success of his Portland ski show across the country. To me, that sounds even more impossible than fishing, and does not include the benefit of a cooler MGDs on the boat floor. But whatever is inside of Fish that made the Indy Pass work, it’s making the recently faded ski show work too.

I’ve attended Snowvana in Portland and Milwaukee, each time as a paid speaker. I’m scheduled to host live conversations with Indy Pass/Entabeni/Black Mountain owner Erik Mogensen (Friday, Nov. 6) and Killington owner Phill Gross and president Mike Solimano (Saturday, Nov. 7), at this year’s New England show. I don’t endorse Snowvana over any competing shows, but I do think ski shows in general offer a fun atmosphere, and a cool way to participate in skiing when you can’t actually go skiing.

Background

Fish has appeared on The Storm Skiing Podcast four times, each time solely as a representative of the Indy Pass:

Transcripts

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Transcript 1: Click the “transcript” button at the top of this article. You can only see this transcript on a computer. Because I don’t know why exactly but everything is getting better and dumber all at once it seems. Anyway, this is the transcript that the robots create when I upload the podcast to the internet. The cool thing about it is that you can click on any block of text and the audio will teleport there instantly. The uncool thing about this transcript is that it does not indicate who is talking at any given moment.

Transcript 2: You can read this below. This is the transcript that Zoom creates as we record the podcast. The cool thing about this transcript is that it indicates who is talking at any given moment. The uncool thing about this transcript is that the timestamps do not match the audio. Also, you cannot click on this text to move to the associated point in the audio.

Zoom

Stuart Winchester: My guest today is the founder of the Snowvana Winter Kickoff Festival and also founder of the Indie Pass. Now in its 10th year, Snowvana gathers skiers, ski area operators, and retailers in Portland, Oregon.

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Stuart Winchester: Seattle, New England, and Wisconsin.

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Stuart Winchester: The Indy Pass, which Fish founded in 2019 and sold in 2023, but is still involved in, delivers skiers two days each at more than 300 ski areas around the world for winter 2026 to 27. He is making his fifth appearance on the Storm Skiing Podcast. He is Doug Fish. Doug, welcome back.

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Stuart Winchester: How’s it been? Been way too long.

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Doug Fish: It has to. I know. I miss you.

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Stuart Winchester: I know. Well, it’s been way too long on the pod, and I was just talking before this, in my little intro, before you joined, that this is one of the reasons I wanted to do a different format pod, because.

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Stuart Winchester: I talk or text you all the time.

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Doug Fish: Yeah, yeah, no worries.

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Stuart Winchester: And I haven’t had you on the pod in 3 years. So, there’s no reason for that, because we love hearing from you, and your episodes always do really well. And we will be working together here a little bit on one of these Snovana appearances in a bit. We’ll get to that.

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Stuart Winchester: First, though, I do want to pick up…

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Doug Fish: Yeah.

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Stuart Winchester: where we left off in that pod three years ago. You had just sold IndiePass to Eric Mogensen.

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Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.

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Doug Fish: Get it.

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Stuart Winchester: Uh, who has gone on to since, also by Black Mountain, and runs a technology company. He was on the podcast recently, and has been a couple times. Just…

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Doug Fish: Yep.

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Stuart Winchester: First of all, tell us how you’re still involved, and give as candid of an assessment as you can of.

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Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.

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Stuart Winchester: where the Indy Pass is once you… once you let that baby go.

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Doug Fish: Yeah.

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Doug Fish: Well, it was a little difficult to let the baby go, but I felt at the time that it would be in good hands, and I’m happy to report that it is in good hands.

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Stuart Winchester: No.

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Doug Fish: Um, you know, my country… my employment agreement ran out.

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Doug Fish: Almost two years ago.

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Doug Fish: And I’m still involved, you know. Eric and I extended it, and we keep extending it, and…

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Doug Fish: I believe in in what he’s doing. I certainly believe in the past. I think that Eric has done a great job of.

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Doug Fish: Staying true to the mission and the brand promise of IndyPass.

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Doug Fish: And, um, you know, as long as that continues, I will… I will be involved in some capacity. I’m kind of the Colonel Sanders of the IndyPass now.

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Doug Fish: I and you know I get to be a little a bit of an ambassador. I go to some of the trade shows.

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Doug Fish: I ski with people.

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Doug Fish: It’s… it’s a pretty good gig, you know.

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Stuart Winchester: When you said Colonel Sanders, I mean, are you…

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Stuart Winchester: What I thought you were doing is still…

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Stuart Winchester: Recruiting new partners? Is that not the case?

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Doug Fish: Yeah, I’ve been. That’s what I’ve been primarily focused on recruiting and maintaining relationships, you know, and and helping grow from a hundred to 300 resorts in the last 3, 3 and a half years, which is pretty incredible growth. And.

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Stuart Winchester: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Stuart Winchester: Yeah.

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Doug Fish: you know, I can’t take all the credit, but, um, you know, when you can focus on just one thing, you can be a lot more effective, and I’ve been focused on that.

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Doug Fish: But Eric has assembled a great team, and I’ve kind of handed that that part of the the effort off to Nick Niebus and a couple other people on Eric’s team that are recruiting new resorts, and, as you can see from the latest release, that’s.

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Doug Fish: Going pretty well.

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Doug Fish: Um, and I, you know, I think there’s some other exciting news in the, in the, uh…

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Doug Fish: Uh, coming up in the future, I won’t spill the beans, but, um, you know, there’s always cool things happening there, and I’m just really thankful to be involved.

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Stuart Winchester: It’s been really fascinating to watch the evolution of not just the Indy Pass, but the Pass landscape as a whole. And coincidentally, we started our brands in the same year. Obviously, you’ve been at this game for a long time, but the Indy Pass launched in 2019, and that’s when I came around.

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Doug Fish: Mmhm.

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Stuart Winchester: observing the industry.

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Stuart Winchester: the pass landscape for as long as you’ve been directly involved in it. And I think the way I always look at this, Doug, is Vail normalized the notion of a multi-mountain pass as an everyday product for the everyday skier, not just a niche product for locals.

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Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.

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Stuart Winchester: And then ICON copied that model, and your contribution to it, which I think was…

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Stuart Winchester: Extremely important was.

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Stuart Winchester: taking that idea and normalizing the idea of the non-alpha ski area, non-destination ski area, and you do have some of those, you do. But…

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Doug Fish: Yep.

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Stuart Winchester: the idea that if you put together Brundage and Mission Ridge and Silver Mountain and White Pass.

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Doug Fish: Okay.

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Stuart Winchester: That would be an attractive pass together, right? Because those ski areas, they’re, they’re good, they’re big ski areas, they have lots of snow, but they’re not destination ski areas, they’re not things people would have thought to fly to, but you had this insight, okay, but if I put them all together, that’s pretty cool.

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Doug Fish: Yeah.

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Stuart Winchester: And so I’ll give you some numbers and I’ll let you react to this.

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Stuart Winchester: So, the first season of IndiePass, you launched with, you know, your first list of 10, and maybe you had 50 by the end of the year. Right now.

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Stuart Winchester: if you look at, uh, Epic, Icon, Indy, Mountain Collective, and the new Snow Pass from Snow Partners, there are 451 ski areas around the world.

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Stuart Winchester: Uh, between those 5 passes. A little bit of overlap between a few of them. 267 in the United States.

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Doug Fish: Yeah, thank you.

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Stuart Winchester: 55 in Canada, 61 in Europe.

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Stuart Winchester: Uh, and 53 in Japan.

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Stuart Winchester: I mean, as you…

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Stuart Winchester: As you kind of reflect on how this landscape has changed.

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Stuart Winchester: I’ve asked this before, but I’ll ask again, does this surprise you? I mean, how well this worked and how much it caught on?

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Doug Fish: No, it doesn’t surprise me at all.

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Doug Fish: It’s basic economics.

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Doug Fish: You know, lift tickets were getting super expensive, and.

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Doug Fish: a lot of people are getting priced out of the sport, and I mean, even if you want to ski at Vail resorts or Altara resorts. You know you you really have to get a pass if you want to ski more than a few days, and so it doesn’t surprise me at all. It’s just a it’s a good deal. Any pass is the best deal of all.

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Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

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Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

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Doug Fish: You know, whether you use it as a regional pass, you know, you go 4 or 5 days in New England, or you take it and you hit the road and hit 25 resorts. It’s the best deal in skiing, and it always has been.

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Doug Fish: So, you know, people respond to deals. That’s…

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Doug Fish: That’s, uh, you know, the most of… most, uh…

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Doug Fish: effective word in advertising is free and cheap comes a second, I think. So it doesn’t surprise me a bit.

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Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

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Stuart Winchester: So we’re starting to see a little bit of churn, and we’ve seen this since the days of the Max Pass.

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Doug Fish: Okay.

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Stuart Winchester: Uh, and, you know, the Epic Pass and Mountain Collective sort of trading partners around. We’ve seen less of it, maybe, than I expected at the top end of Epic and Icon. We’re starting to see a little in Indy. You’ve had some partners leave, you’ve had some partners who have gone to different passes.

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Doug Fish: Yeah. Okay.

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Doug Fish: Yeah, exactly.

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Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.

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Stuart Winchester: What do you… so, the reality is it’s a good idea, and people copied it, and that’s a free market, and that’s how compet.

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Doug Fish: Yes.

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Stuart Winchester: My question for you is, what do you think?

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Stuart Winchester: IndyPass has to do to make sure that it stays relevant, that the coalition stays together, that it stays an attractive.

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Doug Fish: Mmhm.

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Stuart Winchester: product for both skiers and ski area operators as Eric takes it into the future.

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Doug Fish: Yes.

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Doug Fish: Well, two things. I think that any of us, Lauren.

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Stuart Winchester: I’m sorry, can you repeat that?

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Doug Fish: I apologize, too. I got a derm.

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Stuart Winchester: All good.

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Doug Fish: Um…

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Doug Fish: In order for Dandy Pass to remain relevant, they need to continue to be an affordable option for consumers.

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Doug Fish: and continue to deliver value for the resorts.

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Doug Fish: And value in, you know, the quality of the visitors, the guests, the amount of check they write, and the amount that they pay for each visit.

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Doug Fish: And if they can continue to do that, then they will…

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Doug Fish: They will outlive you and I both.

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Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

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Doug Fish: Um, and, you know, yes, we have over 300 resorts now, you’re bound to lose a few now and then. And, you know, we took a hit this year, a few people left, that was unfortunate, but we added…

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Stuart Winchester: Thank you.

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Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

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Doug Fish: quite a few more. So, you know, it’s going great. I’m proud of what they’re doing over there, and I’m proud to be associated with it still.

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Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

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Stuart Winchester: So you’re playing… I mean, your name comes up all the time, as you said, from listening to the first few podcasts of this shorter version that I’m doing now, or trying to make them short, is… wow, everyone has a lot of opinions about Doug Fish, but so does Doug Fish.

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Doug Fish: Yep.

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Stuart Winchester: So, so you’re clearly still living large in the minds of, of everyone who’s involved in the IndiePass or works with it, but you’re…

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Stuart Winchester: Main focus, I think, now, is on Snowvana, which… I copied this language, I don’t want people to think I’m being corny, when I say it’s a winter kickoff festival. I copied that from your press release, because I didn’t really know what… like, I want to call it a ski show.

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Doug Fish: Yeah.

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Stuart Winchester: but you seem to not want to call it a ski show. So, what is… what is Snovana, and…

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Doug Fish: Well, that’s a ski show.

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Stuart Winchester: And what are you trying to accomplish with it?

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Doug Fish: Good, good.

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Doug Fish: It’s all those things. It’s a enhanced ski swap. You know, you can call it anything you want, but, um, we started Savannah in 2016, so this is our 10th anniversary, and, um.

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Stuart Winchester: Okay.

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Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

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Doug Fish: You know, Snowvana is a place for everyone to gather at the beginning of the season, you know, and we certainly didn’t invent that. I think Warren Miller did.

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Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

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Doug Fish: originally, and I remember as a kid going to Warren Miller films, and I was just in awe of of all that, and it was a just, you know, getting stoked for the coming season. It was just an annual pilgrimage.

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Doug Fish: And, um, you know, over the years there’s been, um.

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Doug Fish: you know, hundreds of ski shows, 50 ski shows across the country, big shows. And you know we we I have always been involved in events. I was in the concert business for almost 20 years, and my.

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Doug Fish: At the beginning of my career.

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Doug Fish: And, uh, I just, you know, when I was a kid and was in high school, we used to, you know, put on keggers and sell cups for a buck. So, you know, events are in my blood, and I love it, and…

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Stuart Winchester: Okay.

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Stuart Winchester: Right.

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Doug Fish: you know, when I sold the IndyPass, I sold my marketing agency, but I kept Snowvana, because, you know, I thought it’d be fun to keep it going, and… and uh… the young man who…

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Doug Fish: helped me, um, helped me, um.

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Doug Fish: Grow the Indy Pass.

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Doug Fish: Didn’t want to go with Indy Pass. He didn’t want to move to Colorado.

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Doug Fish: So I said, well, why don’t you come and run Snowball? And we’ll keep that going.

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Doug Fish: And it was actually his idea to, um, to expand it. He said, you know, I think this is a model that we can scale.

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Doug Fish: And, um, you know, I looked at him, I said, okay, you do all the work, and I’ll help with the marketing, and I’ll finance the operation, and, you know, here we are.

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Doug Fish: That was, uh.

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Stuart Winchester: Alright, so you’re doing… you started this 10 years ago, and you’re taking it around the country.

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Stuart Winchester: But you said ski shows have been around forever, right? So, you said there’s been 50, 100 ski shows.

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Doug Fish: Yeah.

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Stuart Winchester: How is…

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Stuart Winchester: What happened to all those shows? Aren’t they still there? Are you still competing with them?

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Stuart Winchester: And if so, it doesn’t seem like a… like a market that’s super ripe for disruption, right? Like, once you…

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Doug Fish: Here.

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Doug Fish: Yeah.

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Stuart Winchester: have a ski show, you kind of own the market, it would seem like. So, I guess rewind for us a little bit, maybe I should have started there. What have ski shows traditionally been in America, and.

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Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.

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Stuart Winchester: What’s happened to them over time?

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Doug Fish: Well, ski shows have been, you know, what’s Nirvana? It was kind of a kickoff festival, a gear sale, and I think they kind of collapsed under their own weight.

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Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

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Doug Fish: You know, the Windy City Ski Show had a 40-year run. The Boston Ski and Snowboard Expo had a 60-year run.

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Doug Fish: uh, the Denver show. There’s been ski shows in all the major northern markets, even in, you know, Dallas had a big show for many, many years, Atlanta.

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Doug Fish: And, um, but the cost of putting on these shows, these big shows, 100,000 square foot shows, is just too much. And, uh, at the same time, as these big shows started to go away.

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Doug Fish: ski swaps proliferated, you know, in every gymnasium and, you know, high school cafeteria across the country. You know, small ski resorts have a ski swap and a kickoff, you know, festival in the fall.

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Doug Fish: All over the country, there must be hundreds of ski swaps.

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Doug Fish: And so we looked at that and said, well, you know, ski swaps are great, but you can’t get out of there fast enough. You know, when there you rifle through all the stuff and maybe you find a gym and you get a good deal, but, you know, there’s no reason to stick around.

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Doug Fish: And what we try to do is create a festival atmosphere. We still have the ski swap. We have a consignment swap, which is a fundraiser for a local nonprofit. And then we have a huge gear sale and we work with local retailers.

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Doug Fish: So, you know, there’s a lot to choose from, but there’s lots of really good deals. And, um, but there’s…

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Doug Fish: you know, there’s fun stuff to do, too. We have films, we have live music, we have a bar. Um, you know, we do stupid stuff like, uh, frozen t-shirt contests and barefoot skis.

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Stuart Winchester: Yeah.

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Doug Fish: Um, so…

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Doug Fish: Yeah, there’s just, you know, there’s a lot of fun activities happening.

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Doug Fish: And, um…

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Stuart Winchester: So, so, so that’s, that’s all right, that’s all right. So.

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Doug Fish: Sorry, I got interrupted too.

00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:42.000

Stuart Winchester: Is there a… is there an inflection point when the ski…

00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:54.000

Stuart Winchester: show stopped working. I want to point to COVID in 2020 that probably killed a lot of them for a year and then forever, but that’s probably too simple of an explanation.

00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:50.000

Doug Fish: Yep.

00:31:53.000 --> 00:32:00.000

Doug Fish: Yeah, COVID I think was, you know, put a fork in a lot of the big shows.

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:08.000

Doug Fish: Um, you know, a lot of promoters decided not to… not to come back. Um, but, you know, I think that the…

00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:06.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:15.000

Doug Fish: It’s very tough. These municipal convention centers are just extremely expensive.

00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:27.000

Doug Fish: and I think you know that’s that was part of it. And you know, online sales. And you know all the all the things that kill retail right? Because these are retail events.

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:26.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:37.000

Doug Fish: And so, you know, we kind of, we took a year off for COVID too. In 2020, nobody was doing events.

00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:35.000

Stuart Winchester: Yeah.

00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:42.000

Doug Fish: Well, we came back in 2021 and it was our best show. We were the first.

00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:54.000

Doug Fish: show to come back and give it a go in 21 at the Oregon Convention Center. And the place was packed, and it was because people were just starving for.

00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:11.000

Doug Fish: you know, human connection. You know, they’ve been cooped up in their house for a year, and they came out in droves. And, you know, this is what, you know, these shows give us, is that human connection.

00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:56.000

Stuart Winchester: Something.

00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:58.000

Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.

00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:21.000

Doug Fish: You know you can buy skis online. You can buy anything online. But you know the the community comes together and and.

00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:28.000

Doug Fish: It’s, you know, we call it AI for the ski business, authentic interaction.

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:33.000

Doug Fish: You know, we need more of that, not less of it. And it’s…

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:36.000

Doug Fish: It’s just a it’s a cool thing.

00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:51.000

Stuart Winchester: So how are you getting around the cost piece, though? I mean, if you want to — they left Chicago because of cost. It seems like that’s because Chicago costs a lot. So you’re going into Boston this year, and we’ll talk about that in a minute. That’s not a cheap market.

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:42.000

Doug Fish: Yeah.

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:47.000

Doug Fish: Yeah.

00:33:50.000 --> 00:34:00.000

Doug Fish: No, well, we’re going into the suburbs. We’re hitting the suburbs now, you know, we’re in West Seattle, in a suburb of Seattle.

00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:55.000

Stuart Winchester: Okay.

00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:58.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:01.000

Stuart Winchester: Okay.

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:11.000

Doug Fish: Uh, we’re in a suburb of Milwaukee and Franklin, Wisconsin, and we’re in a suburb of Boston, out in Marlboro. It’s about 40 minutes west of town.

00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:19.000

Doug Fish: And they call it, uh, West Metro. And, um, you know, these venues are smaller.

00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:16.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:22.000

Doug Fish: They’re about 50,000 square feet versus 100.

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:23.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:37.000

Doug Fish: and they’re way less expensive. We don’t have to deal with union. You know the cost of a union labor, and you know nothing against unions. But.

00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:52.000

Doug Fish: they can drive the cost up. And and you know, General Motors and Ford, you know, they can do an auto show there. No problem. They’ve they’ve got deep pockets. We can’t. And I think that’s why some of these big shows, you know, finally threw in the towel.

00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:46.000

Stuart Winchester: Right.

00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:59.000

Doug Fish: And, you know, the venues we’re in, they’re not as fancy. We’re in a World War II airplane hangar in Seattle.

00:34:58.000 --> 00:34:59.000

Stuart Winchester: Right.

00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:14.000

Doug Fish: you know, at a in a in a park in West Seattle. It’s a really cool building. But believe me, you know, it’s it’s it’s not fancy. And so that’s the that’s the difference. And and.

00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:10.000

Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.

00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:25.000

Doug Fish: we’re able to charge 5 bucks in advance. Kids are free. The booth cost is reasonable for for vendors, and.

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:27.000

Doug Fish: You know, it works.

00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:38.000

Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so you… the timeline’s interesting for those who are following along. So you started Snovana in 2016, launched Indie in 2019. I’m curious…

00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:44.000

Stuart Winchester: how one may have fueled the other. In other words, and I know you’ve been in skiing and in the ski industry for decades, but…

00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:46.000

Stuart Winchester: Once you…

00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:58.000

Stuart Winchester: established IndiePass, and you made all these connections all over the country, I have to imagine that greased the wheels a little bit for Snowvana, because a big part of this, and we’ll talk about this in a minute, is.

00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:07.000

Stuart Winchester: when you go there, most of the regional ski areas have booths set up. And not just the Independents, it’s Vail and Altera, I’ve been at a bunch of the ones that I’ve been to.

00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:04.000

Doug Fish: Yeah.

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:08.000

Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.

00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:12.000

Stuart Winchester: In their mountains, in the bigger mountains, all over the place, so… so…

00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.000

Stuart Winchester: Do you think, I guess…

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:24.000

Stuart Winchester: I guess the question is, how did IndiePass fuel the growth of Snowvana, or do you think that this would be taking off the way it is either way?

00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:33.000

Doug Fish: Oh, I think Snowvana and the work we were doing at the agency with a number of ski resorts all led to the.

00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:36.000

Doug Fish: the idea behind the Indy Pass.

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:42.000

Doug Fish: And certainly the IndyPass connections that I’ve made have helped us expand.

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:52.000

Doug Fish: Snowball on it. There’s no question. You know, we just we’re moving into the Boston market this year for the 1st time, and we have 37 resorts signed up.

00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:59.000

Doug Fish: That’s pretty good for a first-year show. We have 70 resorts across the country. I think it’s closer to 80 now.

00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:00.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:08.000

Doug Fish: And, you know, it’s the only place where you’re gonna see, uh, Epic Pass, Icon Pass, and Indy Pass all in the same room.

00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:09.000

Stuart Winchester: Right.

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:16.000

Doug Fish: And, um, you know, that’s the way it should be. You know, we want to be Switzerland and invite everyone in, because that’s what the consumer wants.

00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:17.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:27.000

Doug Fish: you know, people want to want to interact with all those companies. And and so yeah, indie pass. There’s no question it. It helped us.

00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:29.000

Doug Fish: You know.

00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:31.000

Doug Fish: break into new markets.

00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:46.000

Stuart Winchester: So if you look at the four markets you’re in this year and, you know, Portland is the logical one, that’s your home base and has been for a long time. Then you have Seattle, you have Milwaukee in the Midwest, and you have, you know, we’ll call it Boston or New England or whatever you want to. It’s in Mass.

00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.000

Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.

00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:47.000

Doug Fish: Yep.

00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:55.000

Stuart Winchester: Right? So, one thing I always appreciated about the Indy Pass is that you didn’t just make it a Western Pass, you went into the Midwest right away.

00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:56.000

Doug Fish: Mmhm.

00:37:55.000 --> 00:38:13.000

Stuart Winchester: You went into New England right away. So talk about each of those four markets and, and why it makes sense to do ski shows there because for, for example, in the Midwest, you could have, you could have gone to Detroit, you could have gone to Grand Rapids, you could have gone to Chicago, you could have gone to Indianapolis.

00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:06.000

Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.

00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:23.000

Stuart Winchester: chose Milwaukee, which is, you know, everyone’s heard of Milwaukee, but it’s not necessarily, like, the capital of Midwest, like Chicago is. So just talk us through those markets and your…

00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:14.000

Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.

00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:29.000

Stuart Winchester: Slow expansion across the country, and you’re kind of thinking behind where you’re choosing to do this.

00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:40.000

Doug Fish: Yeah, good question. Um, so Seattle was a no-brainer. You know, we knew that we were drawing people out of Seattle for the Portland show. It’s three, three and a half hours to Seattle.

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:48.000

Doug Fish: And we were drawing a pretty good crowd, so… uh, there hasn’t been a show in Seattle for a decade. It’s a great ski market, you know, they have…

00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:55.000

Doug Fish: 3 phenomenal resorts within an hour of downtown Seattle, Stevens, Crystal.

00:38:55.000 --> 00:39:11.000

Doug Fish: Summit. That’s no qualming help at all. So you know, we found a venue up there that was affordable, you know, an old airplane hangar. And you know, we put a show up there, and it did well. And so we thought, Okay.

00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:10.000

Stuart Winchester: Yep.

00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:18.000

Doug Fish: Uh, we didn’t really want to go to California, uh, so we started looking east because.

00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:21.000

Stuart Winchester: You, you didn’t wanna go to California, why not? I mean, that’s a huge market.

00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:30.000

Doug Fish: Um, yeah, it is a huge market, and, you know, maybe we’ll go to the Bay Area. There’s a big show down in LA called Ski Dazzle that’s still going, a big show.

00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:31.000

Stuart Winchester: Okay.

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.000

Doug Fish: And, um…

00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:44.000

Doug Fish: Uh, but to my knowledge, nothing significant in Northern California, so we may go there someday. But, um, you know, where we… where we went, it’s really…

00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:52.000

Doug Fish: you know, I knew that the Indy Pass was going to be successful back east because there’s so many resorts, and more importantly, so many people.

00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:53.000

Stuart Winchester: Yeah.

00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:55.000

Doug Fish: And, and so.

00:39:55.000 --> 00:40:03.000

Doug Fish: We started looking to the east and Milwaukee, you may think, well, that’s kind of a weird place.

00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:23.000

Doug Fish: Wisconsin’s the number four ski state in the country in terms of number of ski resorts. And Michigan is number three. So, you know, or maybe it’s number two, but yeah. So, you know, there’s a lot of passion in the Midwest. And I knew that from working with the resorts out there.

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:07.000

Stuart Winchester: Yeah, okay.

00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:15.000

Stuart Winchester: It’s 2.

00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:35.000

Doug Fish: you know, Rick Schmitz has been a great ally and supporter of mine, and you know we’ve been friends for many, many years, and he said, Hey.

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.000

Doug Fish: Uh, come and do a show in Milwaukee, and I’ll help you promote it, and…

00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:54.000

Doug Fish: you know, there just happens to be a big sports complex right there at the base of Crystal Ridge, which he owns. And, um, you know, they had space that would work for a show, so we popped a show in there, and it worked.

00:40:55.000 --> 00:41:10.000

Doug Fish: Um, and then we were all set to go into Chicago next, you know, kind of an eastward progression, uh, either Chicago or Detroit, and, um, I got a call.

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:17.000

Doug Fish: from a friend of mine in New England. They said, Hey, Snowbound is leaving Boston.

00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:20.000

Doug Fish: You guys should come out here and do a show.

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:38.000

Doug Fish: And I thought, oh my gosh, that’s the best ski show market in the country, you know, it’s been going for 65 years. And so Quinn McIntyre and I jumped on a plane in early December, when there was absolutely no snow, by the way, in the West.

00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:58.000

Doug Fish: And so we, of course, took our gear, and we spent a week in New England skiing some phenomenal powder at Loon, and Jay Peak, and Bretton Woods, and Black Mountain, and, you know. But we also, you know, met with a few venues back there, and found one that made sense out in Marlboro.

00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:45.000

Stuart Winchester: Yeah, okay.

00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:51.000

Stuart Winchester: Yeah.

00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:09.000

Doug Fish: Uh, a nice suburb of… of Boston, and… and made the decision right then, okay, we’re gonna do this. We signed a 3-year lease, or 3-year contract for… for the space.

00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:14.000

Doug Fish: And here we are. We’re in Boston.

00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:19.000

Stuart Winchester: So, so to, so to clarify for listeners, Snowbound still exists. It moved to the Mohegan Sun.

00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:23.000

Stuart Winchester: Casino in Connecticut. So that show, indeed, will still go on.

00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:29.000

Doug Fish: Yes. Yeah, they didn’t go away, they just moved… they just changed locations, and… and they’re a couple hours from Boston now, so…

00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.000

Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so, so…

00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.000

Doug Fish: Thank you.

00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:32.000

Doug Fish: Go ahead.

00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:48.000

Stuart Winchester: So each of these shows you go to and, you know, the gear is great and I’m sure that’s why a lot of people go. I’m obviously super into the ski area, so when I go and I look at the deals tab on Snovana.com, the first thing I see at the top of each.

00:42:48.000 --> 00:43:05.000

Stuart Winchester: list of ski areas that will be there, and their deals are free lift tickets for Willamette Pass, when you’re out in the Western shows, uh, I believe in the Midwest, you get one free at Little Switz, or Nordic, or Crystal Ridge, then out East, it’s Black Mountain Maine, and there’s some others as well, I’m just…

00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:53.000

Doug Fish: Yeah.

00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:02.000

Doug Fish: Yep.

00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:04.000

Doug Fish: Okay.

00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:08.000

Stuart Winchester: Highlighting some. So, talk a little bit about…

00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:07.000

Doug Fish: Mm-hmm.

00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:25.000

Stuart Winchester: that, because, I mean, you pay $5 to get in, and this is… it’s funny, because it’s kind of a throwback to the pre-pass era, when you kind of have to collect your own pass, and find all these coupons, and, you know, Warren Miller would have, like, a free ticket to Sugarbush or whatever, so… so just talk a little bit about that, and what.

00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:20.000

Doug Fish: Yeah, right.

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:21.000

Doug Fish: Yes.

00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:23.000

Doug Fish: Yeah.

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:29.000

Stuart Winchester: attendees can expect to find their deals wise.

00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:36.000

Doug Fish: Oh, yeah. Well, that’s what motivates people is deals. We say the deals are great and the stoke is free.

00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:36.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:39.000

Doug Fish: And yeah, I, you know.

00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:45.000

Doug Fish: Can’t help but mention in Boston, we have Black Mountain of Maine.

00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:47.000

Doug Fish: Neshoba.

00:43:47.000 --> 00:44:03.000

Doug Fish: and Mcintyre, all giving away free lift tickets for your with your admission. And yeah, so 5 bucks, or for 5 bucks you probably get. I don’t know. That’s 200 bucks worth of lift tickets, and that that’s before you know all the other swag that people are giving away.

00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:50.000

Stuart Winchester: Okay.

00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:52.000

Stuart Winchester: Yeah.

00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:00.000

Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm, sure.

00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:03.000

Stuart Winchester: Right.

00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:14.000

Doug Fish: So, yeah, I mean, it takes a lot to get people off the couch to come down and park and, you know, go to an event. And, excuse me.

00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:19.000

Doug Fish: So we try and pack as much value into the ticket as we can. Um…

00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:39.000

Doug Fish: And all the resorts are there with deals. There’ll be 37 resorts in Boston and 70 across the country. They’re all offering deals of some kind, whether they’re selling a season pass for a discount or a three pack or a daily lift ticket.

00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:30.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:43.000

Doug Fish: And that’s what people want.

00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:44.000

Stuart Winchester: 8. Yep.

00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:52.000

Doug Fish: And, you know, those are just the lift tickets. The gear is… the deals on the gear is what really brings people in.

00:44:52.000 --> 00:45:06.000

Doug Fish: And, um, you know, we can… I can confidently say that we’ve got some of the best selection of new and slightly used gear for 40% to 80% off.

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:07.000

Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.

00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:14.000

Doug Fish: And, you know, we spend all summer collecting it from manufacturers, from reps, from, you know, demo fleets.

00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:30.000

Doug Fish: And the retailers that we work with in each market, they also, you know, they bring last year’s stuff that didn’t sell. They bring maybe their lease fleet that, you know, they’re retiring. And there’s just some incredible deals, and…

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:36.000

Doug Fish: You know, people will walk out saving hundreds of thousands of dollars.

00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:40.000

Doug Fish: If they can spend the time, you know, looking around.

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:54.000

Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so, so, lip ticket deals, gear deals, another thing you’ll find there, uh, at least at the Boston show, is me and I will be doing live interviews on Friday with Eric Mogenson, the owner of IndiePass and IntoBenny. Then on Saturday…

00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:51.000

Doug Fish: Yes.

00:45:54.000 --> 00:46:13.000

Stuart Winchester: I will be hosting live on stage at Snovana Boston, or Suburban Boston, or New England, or whatever you want to call it. The owner of Killington, Phil Gross, and also the president, Mike Solomano, who I’ve had on my podcast before, but this will be our first live event. This is the third time I’ve done this sort of event.

00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:05.000

Doug Fish: Uh-huh.

00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:20.000

Stuart Winchester: For Snowvana, I did one last year with Lonnie Gleiberman of Mount Bohemia at the Milwaukee show, and I did one.

00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:29.000

Stuart Winchester: I think maybe it was the year… two years before that, in Portland, with a panel of general managers. It’s been a lot of fun, and… and, you know, that’s a…

00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:25.000

Doug Fish: Yeah.

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:46.000

Stuart Winchester: That’s a disclosure. I’ve worked, I guess, for Snowvana because these, you know, I don’t do these things for free. It’s, it’s a, it’s a business, you know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a business deal. And, um, and those things take a lot of work, as you know, but, but that, that’s just one example. All right.

00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:38.000

Doug Fish: No.

00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:48.000

Stuart Winchester: Talk about just…

00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:59.000

Stuart Winchester: I guess quickly just run through the dates of the other shows, and the sorts of things that people can expect to be on the stages, or other things I haven’t mentioned yet.

00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:00.000

Doug Fish: Yeah.

00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:02.000

Doug Fish: Excuse me.

00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:08.000

Doug Fish: We don’t spend a lot of time with speakers. You’re kind of the only one, Stu.

00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:12.000

Stuart Winchester: That’s not true. Sean Suttner, my friend, is doing one the next day.

00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:12.000

Doug Fish: Yeah, the great Sean Sutner.

00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:23.000

Doug Fish: Yeah, Sean Suttner from the Worcester Gazette and Telegram will be there on Sunday interviewing the ownership team from Wachusett.

00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:17.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:21.000

Stuart Winchester: Crowley’s.

00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:23.000

Stuart Winchester: Yeah.

00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:42.000

Doug Fish: But yeah, I mean, we have live music. We’ve got, you know, frozen T-shirt contests this year. We’re launching the pray for snow dance contests. And we’ve got this thing called the Sumo Bowl. It’s a inflatable boxing ring and 2 inflatable beer cans. You put these on your body, and.

00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:34.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:50.000

Doug Fish: you try to knock your buddy down, and if you do, you’re entered to win a pair of skis. I mean, it’s just stupid stuff, but people love it.

00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:50.000

Stuart Winchester: Right, right.

00:47:50.000 --> 00:48:04.000

Doug Fish: And so those are happening at all the shows. Great gear sales, lots of resorts, free lift tickets. The great Stu Winchester in Boston this year.

00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:56.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:15.000

Doug Fish: And and then, you know, we’ve got this thing called the cream of the swap. It is a special section in the gear sale.

00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.000

Stuart Winchester: Don’t oversell it.

00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:11.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:30.000

Doug Fish: in the ski swap where we feature a lot of higher end product, mostly, you know, brand new 2627 demo skis. It’s all mount. They’re all mounted. They’ve been skied 2 or 3 times.

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:38.000

Doug Fish: And there’s just some incredible deals there, 40% to 50% off on essentially brand new gear.

00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:38.000

Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.

00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:53.000

Doug Fish: And, um, so you’ll find those features at all of the shows. Each market, you know, had some slight differences and, you know, based on what’s going on locally and how the venue’s laid out, but…

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Doug Fish: You can go to our website and check out what’s different in each show if you want, what the different deals are. All the deals are listed.

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Doug Fish: Uh, that, you know, the resorts are giving away, or the retailers are giving away for, you know, discounting.

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Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so don’t hold me to this, because they could change, so check the website, please, before you go. But right now, I’m scheduled to interview Al… Excuse me.

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Stuart Winchester: Eric on Friday, November 6th at 5.30pm Eastern, and Phil Gross and Mike Solomano of Killington at 2pm on Saturday, November 7th. Those are in Marlboro, Massachusetts. So the… the only thing that I think we can hold Doug to at this point.

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Stuart Winchester: is… is the dates. So, Seattle, Washington, October 16th to 18th, at Hangar 30 in Magnuson Park.

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Stuart Winchester: Uh, the Portland show is October 23rd to 25th at Portland Expo Center, where it’s been for several years.

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Doug Fish: Mmhm.

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Stuart Winchester: The show that I’ll be at will be in Marlboro, Massachusetts, November 6th to 8th at the Royal Plaza Trade Center, and you wrap the season in Franklin, Wisconsin at the Crystal Ridge Ski Area, or the Mosh Performance Center, November 13th through 15th, and again, we won’t.

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Stuart Winchester: resorts and everything else, because I’d imagine you’re adding more all the time. You do have a special treat for my listeners, Doug.

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Doug Fish: Yes, we do.

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Stuart Winchester: If they want to go to any of those, right?

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Doug Fish: Yeah. Thank you, Stu, for having me on, and thank you to your listeners for, you know, listening to this podcast.

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Doug Fish: Um, if you want to go to Snow Vaughan and check it out, because you’re a fan of Stuart Winchester, you can get a free ticket.

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Doug Fish: And oh, the code. So there’s a promo code. Go to our website, snovana.com, and, you know, click on Buy Ticket, and the promo code that’ll get you a free ticket is THESTORM26. THESTORM, all lowercase, 26. You should put that up on the screen.

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Doug Fish: Stu, um…

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Stuart Winchester: I will have my editor do that.

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Doug Fish: Okay, good. And, uh, yeah, get a free ticket, come down, get some, you know, some swag, some free lift tickets, and find a deal on a pair of skis, or a snowboard.

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Stuart Winchester: Okay, any… so that’s for this year…

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Stuart Winchester: You have any sense of where you want to go next?

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Doug Fish: Oh, yeah. Yeah, we’ve got Philadelphia booked for 2027 through 2019.

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Stuart Winchester: Oh, really?

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Doug Fish: We will be in the King of Prussia suburb of Philly. Quinn McIntyre, my colleague, is from Philadelphia, so he’s pretty stoked about that. And so we’ll be there, and then, you know, we’re looking at some other potential.

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Stuart Winchester: Okay.

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Stuart Winchester: Yeah.

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Doug Fish: expansions.

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Stuart Winchester: Alright, and do you anticipate these 4 locations returning for 27, or is it too soon to say?

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Doug Fish: Oh, yeah, we anticipate all of them just, you know, going gangbusters this year, and we’ll be back, but, you know, it’s like an election. You never know how it’s gonna go until election day, and uh…

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Stuart Winchester: Alright, Doug. Well, look, I appreciate you coming on the show again. I never know where I’m gonna see you next. You mentioned you were in New England last December, and I had gone up there for the Ski New Hampshire media event they hold every December, and…

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Doug Fish: So…

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Stuart Winchester: I turned around at one point, and there’s Doug Fish and Quinn walk through the door. I was like, the last thing I… the last people I expected to see at the Ski New Hampshire media night, because you guys are usually, uh, locked into the West Coast at that time of year, but… but it was a pleasant surprise, so, uh, next time I see you, hopefully.

00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:12.000

Doug Fish: Bye.

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Doug Fish: Yeah. Okay.

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Doug Fish: Yeah, hopefully it will, Stu, and it’s always a pleasure. It’s great to be back on the show.

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Stuart Winchester: Yeah.

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Stuart Winchester: You too, man. Talk to you soon.

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Stuart Winchester: Alright, that was Doug Fish, founder of IndiePass and Snovana.

00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:56.000

Stuart Winchester: Let’s do a little quick reader react, listener react, and then we’ll get outta here for today. So there you got some reaction to the podcast that I put out on Monday with Pajarito, New Mexico, general manager Jason Bellamy.

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Stuart Winchester: Gary Luft says, as a New Mexico local, I am pumped about Powerito getting these upgrades. I’ve been a pass holder at Ski Santa Fe, but this year I’m going with MCP’s Power Pass. Thanks to Stuart for giving some attention to our great unknown.

00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:25.000

Stuart Winchester: to those outside of New Mexico, mountains. You’re welcome, Gary. I, uh, love all ski areas, and I’m sorry I have not given more love to New Mexico in the past, though I have done a couple of Taos podcasts. So the Power Pass, for those who.

00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:32.000

Stuart Winchester: don’t know what Gary’s talking about is… is Mountain Capital Partners owns about a dozen ski areas, including two down in Chile, and… and…

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Stuart Winchester: The power pass is, is basically their epic pass, right? It’s the unlimited pass at all of their mountains, not unlimited at the Chilean ones, but you can see all the footnotes on their website. Uh, the point is it, it, there’s three different versions and the cheapest version, it’s 4 49 right now, I believe.

00:53:48.000 --> 00:54:05.000

Stuart Winchester: gets you unlimited access to Pajaritos, Sapapu, and Sandia Peak in New Mexico, and it gets you quite a bit of access at MCP’s other resorts as well. The full unlimited version is unlimited at all of MCP’s U.S. mountains, including really, really good ones like Purgatory, Arizona Snow Bowl.

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Stuart Winchester: I’ve also got Lee Canyon on there, which is a super gorgeous ski area outside of Las Vegas I talked about the other day. And again, the PowerEater upgrades he’s referring to are… PowerEater’s just putting in this massive snowmaking system that’s…

00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:23.000

Stuart Winchester: Doubling is a fire suppression system, so it’s, uh, it’s super… it’s a…

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Stuart Winchester: Partnership with local governments that they’re doing this through. So it’s, it’s a really cool model that hopefully other ski areas around the West can learn from and copy. Jeremiah Kay says, interesting episode. I think wildfire mitigation will be an increasingly important component of helping get snowmaking permitted in the West.

00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:50.000

Stuart Winchester: 100% agree. Jeremiah Kay continues, The ski school and MCP episodes back-to-back got me thinking about urban opportunities to learn and progress as a skier.

00:54:50.000 --> 00:55:02.000

Stuart Winchester: Mostly because I always thought MCP should acquire the Outpost Ice Rink at the base of the Sandia Tram, and put their version of the indoor part of Woodward in that facility.

00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:13.000

Stuart Winchester: Would love an update episode on the state, urban, indoor… uh, state, I think he’s saying state of urban slash indoor ski areas. I know you covered Big Snow well, not sure what happened to Alpine X.

00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:21.000

Stuart Winchester: Much like Epic and Icon add small feeder hills, I wonder if they will add something like Snowbond to a past product.

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Stuart Winchester: A little surprised we don’t have Woodward Brooklyn in a warehouse somewhere. Yeah, I think, Jeremiah, that that would get back to Doug’s earlier comment about why the urban ski shows mostly died. It’s just the expense. You don’t… and the Brooklyn warehouse, as you well know.

00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:40.000

Stuart Winchester: is not inexpensive.

00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:55.000

Stuart Winchester: thing to find these days, even though they still look like they’re 150 years old, because they are. I don’t know what happened to AlpineX, either. I check in with them for an update once in a while, and they keep answering my emails, but there’s nothing to report. I would imagine they’re caught up either in permitting.

00:55:55.000 --> 00:56:13.000

Stuart Winchester: or financing hell, and probably both. Continuing, Allison says, this pod does a great job showing the appeal of smaller, out-of-the-way resorts. Thank you very much, Allison. That is a core part of the storm. I love ski areas, large and small. Patrick says, I had to rewind to double-check after listening to the first 10 minutes.

00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:30.000

Stuart Winchester: You recapped the exciting things MCP has done while mentioning every ski area except Arizona Snowball. Later, it made more sense. You discussed Snowball specifically with Jason and called out the potential for Power Rito to follow the same transformative storyline, and you probably planned that all along.

00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:42.000

Stuart Winchester: This was a great interview about a skier I’d love to check out one of these days, and maybe snowmaking will make it more feasible. Yeah, you know, Patrick, it’s interesting. There’s a little nuance there in that that big snowmaking project?

00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:57.000

Stuart Winchester: I believe all happened before MCP bought Snowbowl, so I hesitate to give them credit for it. I do give them credit for all the things they’ve done since, you know, putting in the Chadala and.

00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:12.000

Stuart Winchester: really revamping that ski area, and… and uh… I think the power pass and everything else has been great for it, and I think MCP’s doing a… a great job across their portfolio, so… so you’re right. It was… it was, uh, something I didn’t get to till later, and… and I’m always…

00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:13.000

Stuart Winchester: a little bit…

00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:22.000

Stuart Winchester: indecisive about how much credit they should give her, but I am working on a separate podcast that’s going to focus on that, so stand by for that.

00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:24.000

Stuart Winchester: Scott Abraham…

00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:39.000

Stuart Winchester: Bajarito, Powerito, Powerino, don’t care what AI calls it, had one of the best powder days of my life 15 years ago or so. Girlfriend in Santa Fe, who worked at Los Alamos, drove her up on Thursday and headed for the mountain, 2 feet afresh since they closed Monday.

00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:54.000

Stuart Winchester: Over the groom, helly skiing quality, amazingly friendly locals who were delighted to show off their mountain to the tourists from Seattle, and green chili on my inexpensive burger, of course. Might have to visit her again this winter and sneak up on Thursday. Alright, Scott’s a tough critic, so…

00:57:54.000 --> 00:58:03.000

Stuart Winchester: if he likes something, uh, that’s a good sign that it’s probably pretty good. So that’s an endorsement, uh, from someone who typically complains about everything.

00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:20.000

Stuart Winchester: Uh, Aiden says, in the last comment, I was referring to Scaria operations and management programs when he said SROM, or similar at several colleges. Thanks again for the great work. So Aiden was referring to a previous comment he made in an episode when he said, uh, you should find out more about SROM programs in your…

00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:27.000

Stuart Winchester: And I said, you’re right, I should, because I have no idea what they are. All right, thank you, Aiden, for clarifying that. That will be our show for today.

00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:43.000

Stuart Winchester: Please go to stormskiing.com and subscribe to the Storm Ski Newsletter. You can start with the free tier and the very best way to up to support my mission of independent ski journalism is to upgrade to the paid tier, which will give you the ability to interact with the podcast and all of the written content.

00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:50.000

Stuart Winchester: below the paywall, which typically is about 80% of the storm. Been a little slow lately, but like I said, it will pick up.

00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:52.000

Stuart Winchester: You can rep the storm.

00:58:52.000 --> 00:59:05.000

Stuart Winchester: like this hat if you’re watching, uh, with hat, shirt, hoodie, go to stormskiing.myshopify.com. Please follow the storm on Instagram, TikTok, or YouTube, at Storm Ski Journal. Till next time, stay well, stay safe.

00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:21.000

Stuart Winchester: I’m Stuart Winchester, and I’ll talk to you again very soon. No show tomorrow on Thursday. I’m recording a couple on Friday. We’ll put one out Friday, one out Saturday. That’s the plan anyway. General managers of Mount Southington, Connecticut, and our good friend Dennis Eshbaugh.

00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:25.000

Stuart Winchester: who has run Holiday Valley in New York for decades.

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Stuart Winchester: Till next time, stay well, stay safe. I’m Stuart Winchester, and I’ll talk to you again very soon.

00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:36.000

Stuart Winchester: All right, sorry, you’ll have to smooth me out a little at.

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Stuart Winchester: Okay, so, uh…

00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:40.000

Stuart Winchester: Just a couple notes.

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Stuart Winchester: Um…

00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:44.000

Stuart Winchester: There’s, uh…

00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:48.000

Stuart Winchester: At the end, Doug says a discount code.

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Stuart Winchester: Storm, lowercase, 26, and he wants us… he said, put that up on your screen. I said, I’ll ask my editor to do that.