Jan 24, 2022·edited Jan 24, 2022Liked by Stuart Winchester
So my Indy Pass brought me to Montage yesterday (Sunday). I live on Long Island and have two boys (12 and 8) that play sports all year, so at 3 hours this is one of the "doable if we suck it up" Sunday daytrip mountains on my Indy list. I guess everything covered in this podcast is true, and maybe it's on me for not studying the trail map before hitting the road, or maybe I did everything "wrong" at this place and missed options, but in my humble opinion the set up of this place . . . kind of stinks if you have pre-teen kids or are a skier who doesn't feel like being "challenged" by steeper terrain. And I wish it didn't, because I pull for places like this.
"Base" lodge is two-thirds up the mountain. If you boot up in the parking lot, the walk to the ticket counter/lodge/rentals/ski shop involves 40-50 steps down (not an exaggeration, although this is probably more of an issue for the adults than my two kids). If you don't boot up in the lot, they have a small area outside the lockers you can use (quickly), but you are on top of a dozen people (half unmasked - what the hell already?) trying to do the same, and need to find a locker or other place for your bag - the lodge is essentially closed. All this is fine, not complaining, the topography of mountains is tough and unchangeable, and I roll with the Covid inconveniences for the most part, just saying it's a tough, sweaty start to the day if you are skiing with kids and have to sherpa gear down from the parking lot (don't forget anything!).
In that vein, the main disappointment for me was the Green and Blue terrain is limited to the top-1/3 of the mountain; essentially everything below that is a Black or Double Black, some with some legit steeps, and all (at least yesterday) with dudes bombing the hill right up your a$$ (and I am a Northeast skier who used to go to Hunter - I don't usually complain about this kind of thing). So while in Stuart's write up he says Montage "skis bigger" than it is, that's only if you can handle/want to handle relatively steep terrain (and it is steep - one run looks like a damn wall from below, and is supposedly the second-steepest steep in the Northeast!). I'm sure there were a few Blacks that my kids could have handled, but after taking them on one trail and twice hearing skiers yell "look out!" or "on your left!" and careen by my kids at 50 mph, I decided the Sunday "expert trails" crowd wouldn't mix with my sons making wide controlled turns, plus I didn't know the mountain enough to take the chance of putting them on something they weren't ready for. Even for me, while I can handle a few steeps, my preference is long meandering greens and blues these days, so not sure I would have really enjoyed skiing top to bottom here even if I didn't have the kids to worry about.
Again, they developed the mountain they had, and if it is mostly steeps it is mostly steeps, I get it. But the end result was we were skiing the same limited terrain and 3-4 minute runs all day, and we basically didn't use 2/3 of the mountain, which was kind of a bummer.
I have more to say about the lack of food options, or indoor/outdoor rest areas catering to families, but those are really specific to "making adjustments for covid," which are in their control but I hate to kind of dump on a small Indy mountain that I am otherwise rooting for. The people working there were great. There was a good crowd, yet the lift lines were very manageable (though the base lift to the beginner terrain had the steepest lift line decline I have ever seen, and beginning skiers were routinely crashing into the people ahead of them!). And the guys running the afternoon race course were, in particular, fantastic. They set up a short course on one of the blues up top the hill, and for $10 my 8 year old got a race number and could race the course as many times as he wanted for 2-3 hours, with his times called out when he crossed the finish. He had never tried it before, but he "raced" 4-5 times and absolutely loved it. Kudos to the starter and announcer making him feel like he was in the Olympics. And the kids still had fun, and I had fun with them, and I am glad the Indy pass made me give Montage a shot. But . . .
The experience was disjointed for me, and I am not sure I would return this year - maybe when my kids are older, or when the covid restrictions are gone and some of these practical "skiing with kids" inconveniences are lessened. But other options on the Indy (or not) are calling me now.
I would suggest Shawnee for next time - true top-to-bottom greens and few of the bombers you find at Montage. Last year, there was a ticket window right there by the Midlands, so didn't have to go all the way down to the lodge - I'm not sure if that's still true this year.
As a post-script, I did check out Shawnee last weekend, it definitely was a better fit top-to-bottom for my guys (and as a dad solo skiing with kids). Son had a blast (they had the NASTAR race set up for him), and varied-enough terrain with the steeper stuff being manageable for him. I might give Montage a second chance as there are so many supporters here that I concede the possibility I am being too harsh on the unorthodox set-up / family-friendliness.
Meant to mention Shawnee in the post - definitely going to check it out, was there years and years ago.
There may have been a ticket booth over by Midlands, I'm not sure, but I thought it was just cabanas when we arrived, so I headed to the lodge buildings by default. Still, I would have ended up by the lodge the entire time anyway because that's where my kids were skiing.
As an aside, I am enjoying the exploration aspect of the Indy pass, and it is still really early, but . . . the reality of life and geography makes me wonder if "the move" for us next year is a Mountain Creek season pass, which I think is what you did. There are 8-10 places on Indy that I want to hit this year, but the reality is I will be lucky to get to two of the VT/NH/ME Indy pass resorts this season. The closest Indy resorts are 3-4 hours from me, doable but a tough day. Mountain Creek is just over 2 hours, far easier to do. A season pass there, plus just planning my 1-2 trips to bigger resorts in NE ahead of time, would make a lot of sense. I just have to get over my own bias against Mountain Creek - I went there (and to Hidden Valley down the road) a ton as a kid in the 80's.
It’s the best mountain in the area with only Elk being a more distant competitor. Vertical is same between Blue, Elk, Montage. But...the top to bottom vertical atMontage is much more interesting in my opinion. And it is waaaayyy less crowded than Blue.
It’s the best mountain in the area with only Elk being a more distant competitor. Vertical is same between Blue, Elk, Montage. But...the top to bottom vertical atMontage is much more interesting in my opinion. And it is waaaayyy less crowded than Blue.
Big prices for such a small mountain , staff is rude at best . Watch your legs while getting on one of their “FOUR “ slow lifts , the lift attendants don’t do anything !!
Small Moutain, Big prices on peak Days. Poor grooming, poor park and Ski Patrol is nasty. My family and I had an incident where we did not know the lower half of the Moutain was closed. Ski patrol used profanities in front of my young children because they had to sweep the Mountain again. I would not recommend this Moutain to anyone who knows what a real Moutain should run like.
The one thing that seems strange is the Indy Pass exchange during your discussion. I totally understand how the Indy Pass needs to pay careful attention to spacing and potential concentrations since that could blow up the pricing and usage model. But I would have guessed Shawnee and Montage are far enough apart (60 miles). Berkshire East and Catamount are this same distance; Black Mountain and Cannon are closer, and I am sure there are some other examples.
Yes I agree that Shawnee is far enough away that they can co-exist on a pass. It's also close enough that having them both on the pass would be a big incentive to buy an Indy Pass for those in the area. Indy Pass is aware of this exchange, so hopefully we see a deal happen!
One other consideration - and I have no facts or figures to back this up - but I think Montage and Shawnee draw from a very different crowd. Shawnee is right on the border and seems much more oriented towards the NY/NJ Metro (they have billboards on the Garden State Parkway!) Montage seems to draw more from the PA crowd. Not sure how much that matters, but an observation.
Excellent conversation. It’s a great story and certainly leaves you pulling for Montage mountain. And I have to give you (Stuart) props for your interviewing skills - this was informative and entertaining even when the proportion of time spent discussing skiing was small. You’re a natural at these podcasts.
So my Indy Pass brought me to Montage yesterday (Sunday). I live on Long Island and have two boys (12 and 8) that play sports all year, so at 3 hours this is one of the "doable if we suck it up" Sunday daytrip mountains on my Indy list. I guess everything covered in this podcast is true, and maybe it's on me for not studying the trail map before hitting the road, or maybe I did everything "wrong" at this place and missed options, but in my humble opinion the set up of this place . . . kind of stinks if you have pre-teen kids or are a skier who doesn't feel like being "challenged" by steeper terrain. And I wish it didn't, because I pull for places like this.
"Base" lodge is two-thirds up the mountain. If you boot up in the parking lot, the walk to the ticket counter/lodge/rentals/ski shop involves 40-50 steps down (not an exaggeration, although this is probably more of an issue for the adults than my two kids). If you don't boot up in the lot, they have a small area outside the lockers you can use (quickly), but you are on top of a dozen people (half unmasked - what the hell already?) trying to do the same, and need to find a locker or other place for your bag - the lodge is essentially closed. All this is fine, not complaining, the topography of mountains is tough and unchangeable, and I roll with the Covid inconveniences for the most part, just saying it's a tough, sweaty start to the day if you are skiing with kids and have to sherpa gear down from the parking lot (don't forget anything!).
In that vein, the main disappointment for me was the Green and Blue terrain is limited to the top-1/3 of the mountain; essentially everything below that is a Black or Double Black, some with some legit steeps, and all (at least yesterday) with dudes bombing the hill right up your a$$ (and I am a Northeast skier who used to go to Hunter - I don't usually complain about this kind of thing). So while in Stuart's write up he says Montage "skis bigger" than it is, that's only if you can handle/want to handle relatively steep terrain (and it is steep - one run looks like a damn wall from below, and is supposedly the second-steepest steep in the Northeast!). I'm sure there were a few Blacks that my kids could have handled, but after taking them on one trail and twice hearing skiers yell "look out!" or "on your left!" and careen by my kids at 50 mph, I decided the Sunday "expert trails" crowd wouldn't mix with my sons making wide controlled turns, plus I didn't know the mountain enough to take the chance of putting them on something they weren't ready for. Even for me, while I can handle a few steeps, my preference is long meandering greens and blues these days, so not sure I would have really enjoyed skiing top to bottom here even if I didn't have the kids to worry about.
Again, they developed the mountain they had, and if it is mostly steeps it is mostly steeps, I get it. But the end result was we were skiing the same limited terrain and 3-4 minute runs all day, and we basically didn't use 2/3 of the mountain, which was kind of a bummer.
I have more to say about the lack of food options, or indoor/outdoor rest areas catering to families, but those are really specific to "making adjustments for covid," which are in their control but I hate to kind of dump on a small Indy mountain that I am otherwise rooting for. The people working there were great. There was a good crowd, yet the lift lines were very manageable (though the base lift to the beginner terrain had the steepest lift line decline I have ever seen, and beginning skiers were routinely crashing into the people ahead of them!). And the guys running the afternoon race course were, in particular, fantastic. They set up a short course on one of the blues up top the hill, and for $10 my 8 year old got a race number and could race the course as many times as he wanted for 2-3 hours, with his times called out when he crossed the finish. He had never tried it before, but he "raced" 4-5 times and absolutely loved it. Kudos to the starter and announcer making him feel like he was in the Olympics. And the kids still had fun, and I had fun with them, and I am glad the Indy pass made me give Montage a shot. But . . .
The experience was disjointed for me, and I am not sure I would return this year - maybe when my kids are older, or when the covid restrictions are gone and some of these practical "skiing with kids" inconveniences are lessened. But other options on the Indy (or not) are calling me now.
I would suggest Shawnee for next time - true top-to-bottom greens and few of the bombers you find at Montage. Last year, there was a ticket window right there by the Midlands, so didn't have to go all the way down to the lodge - I'm not sure if that's still true this year.
As a post-script, I did check out Shawnee last weekend, it definitely was a better fit top-to-bottom for my guys (and as a dad solo skiing with kids). Son had a blast (they had the NASTAR race set up for him), and varied-enough terrain with the steeper stuff being manageable for him. I might give Montage a second chance as there are so many supporters here that I concede the possibility I am being too harsh on the unorthodox set-up / family-friendliness.
Meant to mention Shawnee in the post - definitely going to check it out, was there years and years ago.
There may have been a ticket booth over by Midlands, I'm not sure, but I thought it was just cabanas when we arrived, so I headed to the lodge buildings by default. Still, I would have ended up by the lodge the entire time anyway because that's where my kids were skiing.
As an aside, I am enjoying the exploration aspect of the Indy pass, and it is still really early, but . . . the reality of life and geography makes me wonder if "the move" for us next year is a Mountain Creek season pass, which I think is what you did. There are 8-10 places on Indy that I want to hit this year, but the reality is I will be lucky to get to two of the VT/NH/ME Indy pass resorts this season. The closest Indy resorts are 3-4 hours from me, doable but a tough day. Mountain Creek is just over 2 hours, far easier to do. A season pass there, plus just planning my 1-2 trips to bigger resorts in NE ahead of time, would make a lot of sense. I just have to get over my own bias against Mountain Creek - I went there (and to Hidden Valley down the road) a ton as a kid in the 80's.
It’s the best mountain in the area with only Elk being a more distant competitor. Vertical is same between Blue, Elk, Montage. But...the top to bottom vertical atMontage is much more interesting in my opinion. And it is waaaayyy less crowded than Blue.
It’s the best mountain in the area with only Elk being a more distant competitor. Vertical is same between Blue, Elk, Montage. But...the top to bottom vertical atMontage is much more interesting in my opinion. And it is waaaayyy less crowded than Blue.
Big prices for such a small mountain , staff is rude at best . Watch your legs while getting on one of their “FOUR “ slow lifts , the lift attendants don’t do anything !!
This was 100% true yesterday. I don't think any of the lift attendants tried to soften the blow to my calves.
Small Moutain, Big prices on peak Days. Poor grooming, poor park and Ski Patrol is nasty. My family and I had an incident where we did not know the lower half of the Moutain was closed. Ski patrol used profanities in front of my young children because they had to sweep the Mountain again. I would not recommend this Moutain to anyone who knows what a real Moutain should run like.
The one thing that seems strange is the Indy Pass exchange during your discussion. I totally understand how the Indy Pass needs to pay careful attention to spacing and potential concentrations since that could blow up the pricing and usage model. But I would have guessed Shawnee and Montage are far enough apart (60 miles). Berkshire East and Catamount are this same distance; Black Mountain and Cannon are closer, and I am sure there are some other examples.
Yes I agree that Shawnee is far enough away that they can co-exist on a pass. It's also close enough that having them both on the pass would be a big incentive to buy an Indy Pass for those in the area. Indy Pass is aware of this exchange, so hopefully we see a deal happen!
One other consideration - and I have no facts or figures to back this up - but I think Montage and Shawnee draw from a very different crowd. Shawnee is right on the border and seems much more oriented towards the NY/NJ Metro (they have billboards on the Garden State Parkway!) Montage seems to draw more from the PA crowd. Not sure how much that matters, but an observation.
Excellent conversation. It’s a great story and certainly leaves you pulling for Montage mountain. And I have to give you (Stuart) props for your interviewing skills - this was informative and entertaining even when the proportion of time spent discussing skiing was small. You’re a natural at these podcasts.
Thanks so much.
What a great story. Someone who never skied before buys a resort and makes it work. Just dropped Montage on my list of places to ski.