Who
Dave Rathbun, CEO of Purgatory, Colorado
Check out Dave’s Purgspective mountain blog:
Date Recorded
Oct. 14, 2026
About Purgatory
Owned by: Mountain Capital Partners, which also owns:
Year founded: 1965
Pass affiliations:
Power Pass: unlimited
Power Pass Select: 12 shared days with Arizona Snowbowl, Lee Canyon – holiday blackouts apply
Power Pass Core: 4 shared days with Arizona Snowbowl, Lee Canyon, Brian Head – holiday blackouts apply
Base elevation: 8,750 feet
Summit elevation: 10,822 feet
Vertical drop: 2,072 feet
Skiable acres: 1,635
Average annual snowfall: 261 inches
Lift count: 12 (1 six-pack, 2 high-speed quads, 4 triples, 3 doubles, 2 carpets)
This video gives a pretty sick look down the steep lift line:
And here’s a bit on the Divinity snowmaking expansion:
Why I interviewed him
Purgatory has everything we’re looking for in a modern lift-served ski area attempting to stay relevant in a changing world: an eclectic owner, a multi-mountain pass, wacky lift ticket deals, high-elevation snowmaking, trail expansions, fast lifts, slow lifts, lifts glued together from the discarded parts of other lifts, lifts that predate the invention of the alphabet, private land, public land, places to stay on the mountain, a hip town nearby, and big plans colliding with big bureaucracy. And it’s in Colorado but also sort of not because how do you even get to Southwest Colorado unless you’re driving up from Texas?
Transcripts
There are two transcripts. Both are generated by robots. Both are helpful and defective in their own unique ways. I do not proofread either of them.
Transcript 1: Click the “transcript” button at the top of this article. You can only see this transcript on a computer. Because I don’t know why exactly but everything is getting better and dumber all at once it seems. Anyway, this is the transcript that the robots create when I upload the podcast to the internet. The cool thing about it is that you can click on any block of text and the audio will teleport there instantly. The uncool thing about this transcript is that it does not indicate who is talking at any given moment.
Transcript 2: You can read this below. This is the transcript that Zoom creates as we record the podcast. The cool thing about this transcript is that it indicates who is talking at any given moment. The uncool thing about this transcript is that the timestamps do not match the audio. Also, you cannot click on this text to move to the associated point in the audio.
Zoom
Stuart Winchester: My guest today is the CEO of Purgatory Resort Holdings. Purgatory delivers a 2,072-foot vertical drop over 1,635 skiable acres served by 12 lifts, including a brand new triple chair for winter 2026-27.
00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:38.000
Stuart Winchester: Since 2015, Purgatory has been owned by Mountain Capital Partners, which operates 11 active ski areas in the United States and Chile.
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Stuart Winchester: Prior to his promotion to the CEO role last year, he was Purgatory’s general manager for eight seasons. Prior to joining the team at Purgatory, he was chief marketing officer at Sugar Bowl California for two years and spent eight years as president and general manager of Mount Bachelor Oregon.
00:28:54.000 --> 00:29:03.000
Stuart Winchester: He has also spent time at Killington, Stratton, and IntraWest. Dave Rathbun is my guest. Dave, welcome to the Storm. Did I get your last name right?
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:09.000
Dave Rathbun: Absolutely, Stuart. I am just thrilled to be here with you today.
00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:21.000
Stuart Winchester: Uh, that’s one of those things I’m always like, okay, ask him about his last name before you introduce him, and then I didn’t, and then I just hope I get it right. So, uh, but just blew my cover there. So, so you have been really busy. Tell us about…
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:31.000
Stuart Winchester: The Jaland expansion has historically been known, and it’s a really interesting expansion because it’s at once billed as an expert expansion.
00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:37.000
Stuart Winchester: but it’s also kind of for everyone. So take us through this very unique new addition to your mountain this year.
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:52.000
Dave Rathbun: Yeah, so for those that have been here before, our base area is kind of vertically challenged. We’re in a place where we’re right along US Highway 550 is the literal base of the mountain.
00:29:52.000 --> 00:30:04.000
Dave Rathbun: But there’s about a 200-foot elevation gain to the village right down from the highway, so that… that puts a little extra pressure on forcing people to get up through.
00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:57.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmm.
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:15.000
Dave Rathbun: what we call our Columbine base area to get to the village. So, as you can imagine, along the highway, it’s nice and flat, that’s where all our parking is.
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:32.000
Dave Rathbun: And people would park there and have to catch a shuttle bus, or they could walk to the base of the graduate lift, lift 7 on the map you’re showing, and ride that up to the base village, which is where you jump on the six-pack to get you up on the mountain.
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:25.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:47.000
Dave Rathbun: So what the Galande and now Colorado Cool War chair will do is it’ll give people, especially pass holders that already have a ticket that don’t require any base services like rentals or.
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:57.000
Dave Rathbun: hey, I need to stop and get tickets, or I need to, you know, get my ski school lesson started. Those pass holders can go park right at the base of the cool bar chair.
00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:10.000
Dave Rathbun: jump on that lift, get up to the top of the mountain where they can access everything on the front side, and get all the way to the backside lifts as well. So it’s gonna be a… it’s gonna be a dual-purpose lift.
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:04.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:15.000
Dave Rathbun: You know, for the really hardcore extreme skier, this is terrain that, uh…
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:34.000
Dave Rathbun: is absolutely mind-bending, um, for people that are into that sort of thing. Um, it changes the whole game related to our terrain offering here, to cater to that zealot, that really high-end, uh, free skier rider that really is looking for some steep, gnarly terrain.
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:21.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:45.000
Dave Rathbun: But it’s also gonna make it easy for, you know, your general local to avoid the village and get up on the mountain. So it’s gonna deal with both of those objectives.
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:54.000
Stuart Winchester: So on this trail map that I’m showing, if you’re watching on stormskiing.com or YouTube at Storm Ski Journal, so this yellow line is your.
00:31:54.000 --> 00:32:02.000
Stuart Winchester: current boundary, and then it looks like that’s going to get pushed out, and the lift will come up from around here. Is that about right?
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:13.000
Dave Rathbun: Yeah, correct. So the map that you’re showing on the left that I’m seeing, that triangle that’s shaded, that was part of a permit boundary adjustment to accommodate.
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:04.000
Stuart Winchester: And yeah.
00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:09.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:18.000
Dave Rathbun: the lift and also the skiing through the canyon.
00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:18.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:19.000
Dave Rathbun: So…
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:34.000
Dave Rathbun: That boundary is going to move out to that edge along the shaded triangle there. And then we go down onto our private land down below. So again, Forest Service land starts coming out of the base area, and then.
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.000
Dave Rathbun: Private land all below that.
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:52.000
Stuart Winchester: So I wonder if you’re gonna have a challenge, and maybe this is something I’m sure some of you’ve already thought of, but I’m sure you’ve been to Taos, and you see that great sign at the beginning that says, don’t worry, we have lots of expert runs, too, because you see Al’s running super steep. Do you worry that people are gonna park in the parking lot and say.
00:32:52.000 --> 00:33:05.000
Stuart Winchester: oh my god, because the lift line from the videos I’ve seen is insane, like, really steep. Are you gonna have to train people that there are easy ways, not only from the top, but back at the end of the day?
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:21.000
Dave Rathbun: It’s funny, we just had a meeting with our patrol leaders this morning talking about this very subject. So, you know, the management plan for this area is completely different. We’re talking about everything from.
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:14.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:28.000
Dave Rathbun: The communication side of things, like who should maybe think twice about riding this lift?
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:45.000
Dave Rathbun: Having the proper signage, and then obviously the snow management, avalanche reduction, you know, lift evacuation in the unlikely event that it should occur. I mean, all of those things are off the wall for this lift. There are only a few places.
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.000
Dave Rathbun: that are operating something this complicated.
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:50.000
Stuart Winchester: Yeah.
00:33:50.000 --> 00:34:00.000
Stuart Winchester: Given the importance of this as a… not just a terrain lift, but a transit lift, do you plan to run this even when this terrain is not open, so people can just…
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:02.000
Stuart Winchester: Get right out of the parking lot.
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:16.000
Dave Rathbun: Yes. So what we’ve talked about is, you know, if say we have a a season like, let’s hope it never happens again, like last year, you know, this terrain might have been available for a few days.
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:11.000
Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:32.000
Dave Rathbun: Um, we’re still going to want to operate this on these busier days to get people up and out of the parking lot. So, um, there’s currently no snowmaking at the bottom. We are working on a plan with the Forest Service to get snowmaking down there for next year.
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:47.000
Dave Rathbun: Um, then we’ll be able to get you on a platform this year with some nevoplast, so you can at least shuffle ahead, get on the lift, and get up on the hill. So, uh, hopefully next year we’ll be able to put snowmaking down to the bottom, and then that run.
00:34:47.000 --> 00:35:02.000
Dave Rathbun: will connect to the bottom of our sticks run, which is another black diamond coming down the shoulder of the front side. And then you’ll be able to ski from there back to the bottom of this lift, which will make it a little bit more sustainable.
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:17.000
Stuart Winchester: You’ve done a couple big snowmaking projects, and I want to get to those in a minute. Right now, I want to talk a little bit more about the Colorado Coulard chairlift. So, I’ll give you some fun facts, and maybe you already know these. Of the 511 active triple chairs in the United States.
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:28.000
Stuart Winchester: Colorado Colar will be the 5th tallest with 1,625 vertical feet. You also have the 4th longest triple in needles.
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:44.000
Stuart Winchester: At 5,798 feet long. And Needles is the 12th longest fixed grip of the 1,445 fixed grip chairs in America. And you also have, interestingly, the 11th shortest triple chair, Columbine.
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:56.000
Stuart Winchester: Which is 531 feet long, over 72 feet of vert. I’ll just sort of throwing that out there for people who care about that kind of stuff, but I… point is, it’s a very long, tall.
00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:11.000
Stuart Winchester: Triple chair. Talk about the decision to go fixed grip there. And also, I believe this is a hybrid of a Skytrak machine and, and an old lift from Telluride. So, so take us through the decision and, and, and what this lift actually is.
00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:27.000
Dave Rathbun: So first and foremost, it’s not, again, like you said, it’s only a little over 4,000 feet long. So at 500 feet a minute as a fixed grip chair, it’s going to be just under 10 minutes. So, you know, nine minutes.
00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:19.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:26.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:42.000
Dave Rathbun: You know, you gotta figure for a little bit of, uh, loading accuracy and, you know, maybe slows here and there, but it’s only gonna be about a 9-minute ride. So the question was, for the astronomical cost of putting a detach on this alignment.
00:36:42.000 --> 00:37:00.000
Dave Rathbun: Uh, versus, you know, doing something that our company loves to do. We are recycling an older Lyft that still has a lot of hours and a lot of miles yet to go on it. Um, but what we’ve found is we had to go hybrid on this because of the tension involved.
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:17.000
Dave Rathbun: So, again, being as steep and as short as this lift is, there are extreme factors on the ground pressure that this lift requires to be able to climb that steep a pitch in that shorter run.
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:36.000
Dave Rathbun: So, both terminals, the drive terminal and the return terminal, are Skytrak. Um, we reused towers, um, from the plunge lift from Telluride Lift 9. Uh, we also have a few of our old Lift 8 towers that were.
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:51.000
Dave Rathbun: Pama, much thicker wall, steel tubes, and then all new SkyTrak head frames, shiv assemblies. So it’s a pretty darn modern lift from the head frame up.
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:37:51.000 --> 00:38:05.000
Dave Rathbun: and the top and the bottom terminals, with mostly towers that have been reused, and chairs, and grips. So, it was a significant savings by going this route. Um, and we’ve got…
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Dave Rathbun: We’ve got a pretty stout lift now that’s gonna go up this pretty rugged face.
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:27.000
Stuart Winchester: So while we’re on the, the list, the lift topic here, Dave, a blog post from earlier in this last spring or this spring had mentioned a, an upgrade to the Purgatory Express, which for listeners is a 2000 Alpenmeyer six pack.
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:32.000
Stuart Winchester: With the latest control system, do you have any update on that, and why it was time, and what that will achieve?
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:50.000
Dave Rathbun: Yeah, and we chose to do that early. We did that in the springtime. So right after we closed, we put in all the new low voltage controls for that lift. So again, that era lift that was pre-Doppelmeyer, so it’s still a CTEK lift, but.
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:37.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:38:50.000 --> 00:39:06.000
Dave Rathbun: It is a bomber lift. It just was showing its age from its drive components and obviously the low voltage controls. So changed out the comm line. We had already done an upgrade on some of the terminal equipment. We put a cyclo spacing unit in.
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:19.000
Dave Rathbun: And all the things that a modern, you know, detach of that size, um, and it’s our workhorse. That’s the main way out of the base area currently. Um, really important lift for Purgatory, and…
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:13.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:28.000
Dave Rathbun: the time was right, um, we got it done, and that lift, I think, is going to give us another solid 15 or more years.
00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:40.000
Stuart Winchester: So you talked about the cost savings that you got from Colorado Coal Air with combining lifts. What kind of cost savings was it to modernize the 6 rather than replace it? Is that something you even considered?
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:31.000
Dave Rathbun: Uh…
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.000
Dave Rathbun: Uh, yeah, I mean, you’re talking, um…
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:49.000
Dave Rathbun: Probably close to $10 million to replace that lift.
00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:55.000
Dave Rathbun: And it’s still, again, a solid lift. We do run it in the summer, so it’s picked up a few extra hours because of summer ops.
00:39:55.000 --> 00:40:11.000
Dave Rathbun: But, you know, by the time everything’s said and done, you spend about a million and a half dollars when you upgrade a lift like that. You know, my experience at Mt. Bachelor, we upgraded every one of those, you know, early to mid 90s detachable quads.
00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:16.000
Dave Rathbun: You know, the plan that we had there was to get them all to 40 years old, and uh…
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:17.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:31.000
Dave Rathbun: A couple of them have gotten a little bit longer than 40, but now it’s time for those to go away, so I’m happy to see they’re doing that. But, you know, these lifts, if you take good care of them, there’s no reason why you can’t get 40 years out of them these days.
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:38.000
Stuart Winchester: Right. And some upgrades happening for sure. The, let’s see if I’m.
00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:53.000
Stuart Winchester: Trying to share the trail map again. Not sure if I did that successfully. I did not. Okay. So, uh, you have some, some that are over 40 here and, and you’ve made some nice upgrades, but Grizzly here is a, is a 1980.
00:40:53.000 --> 00:41:10.000
Stuart Winchester: Riblet, according to Liftblog’s records, Engineer is, uh, 69 Riblet, and then the Twilight Lift is a… is 76 Riblet. So, you know, you have this nice new Legends Express over here, that’s from 2015, but just talk to us about…
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:23.000
Stuart Winchester: As you think… once you… now that you have this expansion out of the way, what lift would you like to upgrade next? What’s in the plan? I know you had some things in the 2008 Master Plan, but that’s probably been updated since.
00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:35.000
Dave Rathbun: Yeah, so we have two different approvals. We have the 2008 EIS that we’re still working mostly off of.
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:42.000
Dave Rathbun: That gives us lots of ability to add, um, new lifts on current alignments.
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:52.000
Dave Rathbun: One new lift on a new alignment. And then we have another EA that was approved in 2019 for what is called Ice Creek.
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:53.000
Stuart Winchester: Right.
00:41:52.000 --> 00:42:02.000
Dave Rathbun: So, I am working right now with all of our, um, mountain planners and the Forest Service to install Ice Creek next summer.
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:03.000
Stuart Winchester: Oh, wow.
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:17.000
Dave Rathbun: So that, again, is a little bit complicated. We have some cultural resources, um, on the map that you’re looking at right there, that the lift would, uh, the top of the lift would be about where the, uh, sea is and backside on that, um.
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:17.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:31.000
Dave Rathbun: the big map that you were showing, uh, you’ve got the Ice Creek map right there. So, that’s what we’re looking at doing next year. Um, we’re actually talking about cutting the lift line over snow this winter.
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:20.000
Stuart Winchester: Yeah.
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:22.000
Stuart Winchester: Yes.
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:32.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmm.
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:48.000
Dave Rathbun: So, the Forest Service has the construction plan in hands. We’re just going through some fine details with that. There is a historic wagon road that runs through this project area. So, we have to be very careful with that. And then, obviously.
00:42:48.000 --> 00:43:01.000
Dave Rathbun: The headwaters of the East Fork of the Hermosa Creek run right through the base of this, so we have lots of water influence zones and wetlands that are.
00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:17.000
Dave Rathbun: you know, an issue to navigate around for a project in this type of zone. So that’s the plan for next year. Cut the lift line over snow this winter to minimize the impact on the wagon road. And then we’ll be doing the trail clearing next summer when we put the lift in.
00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:24.000
Dave Rathbun: So, still a little tentative, but that’s what we’re working on right now for next year.
00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:38.000
Stuart Winchester: What’s the ambition for this? It looks like a fairly small expansion and it’s kind of tucked away from the base. Usually you’d see this for maybe a beginner area. This looks to be Blue Trail. So tell us what you have in mind here and what you hope to achieve and also what kind of lift you are envisioning right here.
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:53.000
Dave Rathbun: So, it’s a low intermediate area, so that’s one of the areas that has been identified at PERG. We’ve got great, you know, long cruiser intermediate and a little bit higher-end intermediate trails.
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:54.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:59.000
Dave Rathbun: We don’t have a great place to go from true beginner down in the Columbine base.
00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:06.000
Dave Rathbun: We’ll talk about the Divinity Pod on Lift 4 next, I’m sure. That’s kind of the next step for beginners.
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:03.000
Stuart Winchester: Right.
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:07.000
Stuart Winchester: Hmm. Okay.
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:20.000
Dave Rathbun: But where do they go next? So that’s what this ice creek pod is designed to be. You can go right from, you can see on this map, the top of lift four is just at the top of that map to the right of the 15.
00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:21.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:28.000
Dave Rathbun: Now you’ll be able to go right over to this pod once you’re ready for the next step up, go to Ice Creek from lift four.
00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:32.000
Dave Rathbun: So that’s the intent there.
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:46.000
Dave Rathbun: Yeah, it’s beautiful skiing, incredible views looking to the north and looking directly west down this… this unbelievable valley. Talk about, you know, San Juan Mountain, picturesque.
00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:50.000
Stuart Winchester: Is this going to be a new lift, Dave, or are you sourcing it from elsewhere?
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:58.000
Dave Rathbun: So, we are actually looking at using, um, we haven’t gotten all this finalized yet, but using the REST.
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:02.000
Dave Rathbun: of Lift 9 plunge from Telluride.
00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:02.000
Stuart Winchester: Oh, cool.
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:18.000
Dave Rathbun: So our lift maintenance manager and I just went out earlier, this summer, toward the end of the summer, and did a a big inspection of all the remaining lift parts, and we basically have the remainder of a lift there.
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:35.000
Dave Rathbun: And for those that have ridden the old plunge, there were a lot of towers. And those towers would work fine on this alignment because the ground pressure and the tension required here is far less than what it is on the cool warm.
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:19.000
Stuart Winchester: Right.
00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:37.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:49.000
Dave Rathbun: So we think we might be able to reuse that whole lift. There are some things that we’re still debating, like, you know, that old plunge lift had a counterweight tensioning system.
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:49.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:45:49.000 --> 00:46:06.000
Dave Rathbun: Does that make sense this day and age? You know, there are some benefits. You know, the line gauge changes if we change those terminals, which means the width of the towers. So that would add a lot of cost if we went to like a SkyTrak approach.
00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:10.000
Dave Rathbun: That would be wider than what this, um…
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:15.000
Dave Rathbun: the original plunge would be. So we’re looking at all of this.
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:21.000
Dave Rathbun: Trying to figure out what the the best solution will be, but that’s what we’re working off of right now.
00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:24.000
Stuart Winchester: What’s the vertical here, Dave, approximately?
00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:31.000
Dave Rathbun: So, that one is gonna be, uh, a bit less. I wanna say it’s around 1,100 feet.
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:39.000
Dave Rathbun: you know, a thousand feet. It’s not… it’s not steep. There is one pretty good cliff that we have to clear, which is…
00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:47.000
Dave Rathbun: Just about where the eye and ice is, right below, that’s a forest service road that it goes across.
00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:43.000
Stuart Winchester: Okay.
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:47.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:55.000
Dave Rathbun: So that’s the only kind of challenging part of it. So you’ll pick up like, uh…
00:46:55.000 --> 00:47:00.000
Dave Rathbun: 80 feet right there going up and over a cliff.
00:46:58.000 --> 00:46:59.000
Stuart Winchester: Okay.
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:03.000
Stuart Winchester: It’ll be a fun Lyft ride, if nothing else.
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:01.000
Dave Rathbun: So.
00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:08.000
Dave Rathbun: Yeah. Again, you know, we don’t do anything, you know, too simple here at Purgatory.
00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:22.000
Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so just looking far into the future, and not to hold you to this, but just thinking about Grizzly, thinking about Engineer, thinking about Twilight, it seems like from a business point of view, this would probably be the one that would make the most sense.
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:37.000
Stuart Winchester: to replace next? Maybe you’re hardcore to get more excited about some of these upper mountain lifts, but of these riblets you have left, is there one that you have in mind to go first, and do you have an idea of what you would want to replace them with?
00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:45.000
Dave Rathbun: Yeah, I mean, right now, lift four, which is twilight coming out of the base area.
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:41.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:45.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:47:45.000 --> 00:48:01.000
Dave Rathbun: Every one of us here is nervous that if something should happen to lift one, you know, we’re left with, significantly less uphill capacity out of the base area. So the plan right now is we are looking at, replacing that.
00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:57.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:07.000
Dave Rathbun: riblet, double chair, center pole double, with an eight-person gondola.
00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:03.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:08.000
Stuart Winchester: Oh, jeez, okay, cool.
00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:14.000
Dave Rathbun: So, yeah, so that is, again, part of the strategy for that terrain pod.
00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:14.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:20.000
Dave Rathbun: Which would be, as soon as you get your very low-level, level 1, level 2 beginner lessons.
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:30.000
Dave Rathbun: probably still down in Columbine, you’ll be able to get on that gondola and go up into this, again, a beautiful pod of beginner terrain.
00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:25.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:38.000
Dave Rathbun: served by that lift and be able to have the big San Juan views again.
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:39.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:50.000
Dave Rathbun: And then the other beauty of this lift is at the end of your lesson or at the end of your experience there, you can ride that gondola back to the base and avoid lower demon.
00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:50.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:48:50.000 --> 00:49:02.000
Dave Rathbun: Uh, for, again, those that know Purgatory, we funnel back pretty heavily down that one trail to the base area, and we have quite a mix of.
00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:06.000
Dave Rathbun: High-end skiers, race team, you know.
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:11.000
Dave Rathbun: Terrain park riders and beginners. So…
00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:23.000
Dave Rathbun: It’s a… it’s a bit nerve-wracking at times, especially during the holidays, especially right before lunch and toward the end of the day with the mixing that happens on that trail, so…
00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:30.000
Dave Rathbun: That lift eventually could provide those that wanna avoid that experience the opportunity to ride it back to the bottom.
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:38.000
Dave Rathbun: The other big thing is we have entitlement for a 16,000 square foot lodge at the top of that lift.
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:32.000
Stuart Winchester: Yeah, that…
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:43.000
Dave Rathbun: So, picture, you know, right now we have 2 really nice on-mountain lodges.
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:52.000
Dave Rathbun: Very large, very suitable to meet the needs of our skiers, but none of them are at the top of a lift.
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:46.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:49:52.000 --> 00:50:02.000
Dave Rathbun: So, building a lodge at the top of that gondola would be another game changer for us, especially for events, things like summertime.
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:53.000
Stuart Winchester: Right.
00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:04.000
Dave Rathbun: et cetera.
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:12.000
Stuart Winchester: Yeah, I’m a big fan of gondolas around beginner areas. Big Sky just put one in, and Jackson’s had a ton of success with theirs.
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:23.000
Stuart Winchester: I’m really good at spending other people’s money, so let me ask you, is there a world, since you have these two old double chairs right next to each other, where you take a gondola up here and then angle it to the top of, uh, where Lift 2 is now?
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:33.000
Dave Rathbun: Probably not. That is… that is something we would have to get entitled. And, uh, you know, we did play around with…
00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:30.000
Stuart Winchester: Right.
00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:48.000
Dave Rathbun: Um, angling something, and actually having a little bit different profile here, but it didn’t work out, but at one point, we looked at that gondola coming out of the base area, having an angle station, and going up toward the top of lift 3.
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:40.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:50:48.000 --> 00:51:00.000
Dave Rathbun: for most of Park Express. Uh, it’s just, you know, today’s day, we don’t need that. So… but that Lift 4, with a new lodge at the top of it.
00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:50.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:03.000
Dave Rathbun: That would make a lot of sense for us.
00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:05.000
Stuart Winchester: Any kind of timeline on that, Dave?
00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:15.000
Dave Rathbun: So, we’re looking at that. So, again, we’ve got, uh, we’ve got some big mountain bike races coming up here starting in 2028, um, including the World Championships in 2030.
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:20.000
Dave Rathbun: We would love to have that thing in the summer of 2028.
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:21.000
Stuart Winchester: So you…
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:25.000
Dave Rathbun: So, again, I, you know, just like the weather, you know.
00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:35.000
Dave Rathbun: As conditions permit, so as conditions permit, you know, we’ll shoot for summer of ‘28 to put that lift in.
00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:42.000
Stuart Winchester: And really, it seems as though you’ve already been laying the groundwork for improvements on the speed, because the bit… you put in a big snowmaking…
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:57.000
Stuart Winchester: Project along Divinity Trail this summer. I don’t know if I had that line exactly right. And also a big one off Legends last year that, uh, from, from what it seems really helped in what was a very hard season for Purgatory. So just talk about those.
00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:03.000
Stuart Winchester: projects, Dave, and where you’re at with snowmaking and purgatory in relation to where you want to be eventually?
00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:08.000
Dave Rathbun: Absolutely. Well, uh, being perfectly blunt.
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:13.000
Dave Rathbun: that Lyft 8 Legends Express pod probably would not have opened.
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:14.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmm.
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:30.000
Dave Rathbun: till February last year had we not put that snowmaking in. That snowmaking running down that long Legends Trail that connected all the way to the front side is how you would get down that last steep pitch. As again, people remember from.
00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:19.000
Stuart Winchester: Right.
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:25.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:29.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:32.000
Dave Rathbun: the old Lyft 8.
00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:46.000
Dave Rathbun: most people loaded basically where the Legends Trail line crossed the lift line. That’s where what was called the mid-load was, and people didn’t have to ski to the very bottom.
00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:56.000
Dave Rathbun: Um, you know, that’s kind of an expensive way to put in a detachable quad, is to put a mid-station in, you know, literally 200 vertical feet above where the base is.
00:52:56.000 --> 00:52:57.000
Stuart Winchester: Right.
00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:08.000
Dave Rathbun: So, um, getting that snowmaking down to the bottom was a huge, huge thing for us. You know, I… since I got here, we’ve been doing all kinds of crazy things like we did in Oregon, where.
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:17.000
Dave Rathbun: Most mountains don’t have much snow making and you would snow farm. So we were setting up wind fence to catch snow and farm it.
00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:12.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:32.000
Dave Rathbun: It just it’s just so hard and so unpredictable. Now that we have snowmaking to the bottom, you know, that that might change how early we get that lift open. It’s great to be able to get to the far reaches of the resort.
00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:36.000
Dave Rathbun: Um, you know, as early in the season as we can, so…
00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:37.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:43.000
Dave Rathbun: And the limiting factor there is that bottom two hundred feet for, you know, the snow line back there.
00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:53.000
Stuart Winchester: So you’ve been lucky in your career, you’ve worked at a lot of places where it really nuked, especially Sugar Bowl and Bachelor. I’m curious, you know, you’ve been around and worked.
00:53:53.000 --> 00:54:08.000
Stuart Winchester: for Powder for a while, and… and worked for IntraWest, and uh… now you’re working for Mountain Capital Partners, and… and I just recently hosted your colleague down in… Jason down at Parrito, and talked about the giant snowmaking.
00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:12.000
Stuart Winchester: installation going in there this summer. Can you just talk a little bit about.
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:14.000
Stuart Winchester: working for Mountain Capital Partners, and.
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:24.000
Stuart Winchester: their philosophy around snowmaking, because, gosh, they’re running in some really tough environments in New Mexico and Arizona, and probably southwest Colorado.
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:27.000
Dave Rathbun: Yeah, I mean…
00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:32.000
Dave Rathbun: that’s the beauty. Somebody who’s done this as long as I have for the types of companies I’ve worked for.
00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:38.000
Dave Rathbun: There is nothing better than working for somebody like James Coleman. Skiing first.
00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:37.000
Stuart Winchester: Yeah.
00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:44.000
Dave Rathbun: Give people the freedom to ski. I mean, everything is central to the ski experience.
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:49.000
Dave Rathbun: That is music to my ears, having gone through some really…
00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:57.000
Dave Rathbun: strange and painful things for skiers at different areas during different times of their, you know, life cycles.
00:54:57.000 --> 00:55:17.000
Dave Rathbun: Nothing better. Uh, we start with, you know, making sure that we can get as much of our mountain and as much of our lifts open with snowmaking. So, that’s the key. We’ve got to get these lifts open, and if you’re in the southwest, where you can be sometimes temperature or precip challenged.
00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:32.000
Dave Rathbun: You better have snowmaking. So, that’s a huge focus for us. And, you know, Pajarito, that will be a game changer. That mountain, that little mountain skis huge and put a little more snowmaking on it.
00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:30.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.000
Stuart Winchester: Right.
00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:36.000
Dave Rathbun: That place is going to be amazing.
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:51.000
Stuart Winchester: So you can ski Pareto and Purgatory on the Power Pass, which is awesome, free for kids 12 and under, which is the best deal for families in America. Also recently announced $9 lift tickets when I checked.
00:55:51.000 --> 00:56:05.000
Stuart Winchester: today, Dave, there were still 14 days with $9 lift tickets at Purgatory, mostly early season, but the highest I see was $85 all season. I’m sure some of those numbers will go up, but just talk about…
00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:20.000
Stuart Winchester: having that sort of entry point, and you already have a really cheap pass with the Power Pass, so… so what’s the reaction been like to that? And… and, you know, Vail always tells us that lift tickets have to be highest people buy the Epic Pass, but you’re kind of doing both.
00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:28.000
Dave Rathbun: Yeah, I mean, I’ve been a student of this my whole career. You know, the middle third of my career was all sales and marketing.
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:28.000
Stuart Winchester: Right.
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:38.000
Dave Rathbun: And we did some wild, crazy stuff at other places, too, but this is by far the most aggressive pricing. And this is…
00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:44.000
Dave Rathbun: This is hard for a ski guy like me to get your head around initially.
00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:45.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:51.000
Dave Rathbun: But what it does is, until this year, it gave Purgatory unbelievable free ink.
00:56:51.000 --> 00:57:08.000
Dave Rathbun: now all my sister resorts are doing it too, and I joke with everybody, hey, you guys, you didn’t follow us along, you know, when you could have the last few years, but, you know, I think we prove that this is, you know, the juice is well worth the squeeze, and again.
00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:21.000
Dave Rathbun: People are talking about us like they never have before. Some people don’t even know about some of our mountains. They’re awesome places. They may not be the biggest, they may not have the fastest, newest lifts.
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:22.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:30.000
Dave Rathbun: But man, skiing is fun at these places. We are authentic and the pricing just helps us tell our story a little bit better.
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:47.000
Dave Rathbun: It is demand based. So obviously when we get busier, we’re trying not to go over our, we call it our do not exceed. Every one of our mountains has a different number. We want to get as close to that number we can every single day.
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:53.000
Dave Rathbun: You know, are we ever gonna get there? Are we ever gonna fill every seat on the plane like an airline does?
00:57:53.000 --> 00:58:08.000
Dave Rathbun: Probably not. But that’s how we that’s how we’re trying to, you know, stay authentic, provide a great value. You know, there’s really no excuse to not go skiing if we can make it this affordable.
00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:28.000
Dave Rathbun: Yeah, you may not be able to do it on a holiday, but this is how we roll. We want people to get out and enjoy the snow, and we’re trying to make it as affordable and take down as many barriers as we can. You know, the free lessons that we do, you know, you buy a full-price ticket, we’ll give you a free lesson.
00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:43.000
Dave Rathbun: These are just parts of the things that are non-negotiables with somebody that is like James Coleman. He has a vision for what he wants to create, and he puts his money where his mouth is. We could make more money.
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:37.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:44.000
Stuart Winchester: Yep.
00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:55.000
Dave Rathbun: That’s not what this is about. So you talk about, again, being a ski guy my whole life, where I grew up, started skiing when I was five, I ended up in this industry.
00:58:56.000 --> 00:59:09.000
Dave Rathbun: People like that just don’t exist anymore. He acts like some of these incredible founding pioneer operators. There are not many of them left. James Coleman is one of them.
00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:00.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:22.000
Stuart Winchester: Absolutely, and you know, those lower prices have not led to a lack of investments, because MCP, as we’ve been talking about, has been building new lifts and snowmaking projects like crazy. You know, your perspective is really interesting here, Dave, and I want to…
00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:38.000
Stuart Winchester: I want you to leave us on, on this today. So you’ve worked in a lot of different markets with, with a lot different regulations. New England is its own thing, and Pacific Northwest is a, is a monster regulatory wise. And in Tahoe, you know, good luck doing anything there.
00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:47.000
Stuart Winchester: And so now you’re at purgatory, and I thought you had a really interesting note. When you wrote about, in April, when you stepped into the CEO role.
00:59:47.000 --> 01:00:03.000
Stuart Winchester: You wrote you wanted to focus on, quote, developing solid business strategy and navigating the complex compliance and permitting world that dictates our future growth. And you also wrote, quote, the time red tape and financial hurdles required to get even simple improvement projects off the ground.
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:08.000
Stuart Winchester: are growing. I read about this all the time. It’s interesting to watch.
01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:21.000
Stuart Winchester: up in Canada, I’m sure, when you worked for Interwest, you saw that the government has a philosophy of clearing hurdles, whereas in America, there are just so many hurdles. But can you just talk about, over your career.
01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:27.000
Stuart Winchester: How much more difficult has it become to.
01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:34.000
Stuart Winchester: do simple things, and kind of one of the baselines I always use is some operators tell me it costs more to.
01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:45.000
Stuart Winchester: fight litigation and approve a project than it does to build it. But from your point of view, just tell us how this has evolved and why this really requires a full-time person in an executive role now.
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:52.000
Dave Rathbun: Yeah, I mean, I think this is the eighth forest that I’ve been on.
01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:51.000
Stuart Winchester: Yeah.
01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:57.000
Dave Rathbun: So the Forest Service alone, it’s been highly publicized.
01:00:57.000 --> 01:01:14.000
Dave Rathbun: There are a lot of changes at the Forest Service. They have lost an incredible amount of their institutional knowledge. And every time that happens, it changes the interpretation of what the regulations are, even though they may not have changed.
01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:25.000
Dave Rathbun: And then people have to learn them. You know, I am going through an issue right now with, you know, the last part of this divinity snowmaking is going to require some blasting.
01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:42.000
Dave Rathbun: So, I’m trying to get a blasting plan approved, and the person that I’m working with at the Forest Service, you know, sent our blaster a whole bunch of regulations on Forest Service land related to mining.
01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:43.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm. Okay.
01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:50.000
Dave Rathbun: And we’ve never, never had that before. And again, I don’t know why, I just think it’s.
01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:44.000
Stuart Winchester: Okay.
01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:48.000
Stuart Winchester: Right.
01:01:50.000 --> 01:02:02.000
Dave Rathbun: probably because they don’t know. Um, so we’re… I mean, that’s one small example. So, the loss of their institutional knowledge, and I will say that.
01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:54.000
Stuart Winchester: Right.
01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:17.000
Dave Rathbun: It doesn’t feel like the partnership it was not that long ago. I mean, you know, when I was in Oregon, we got a master plan through and accepted in record time. It was supposedly going to be the first of the new style.
01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:35.000
Dave Rathbun: master development plans, which were around a 10-year time horizon. So, smaller, don’t do what we call the kitchen sink master plans. I mean, when I was at Copper Mountain, um, I was there, like, the last 7 years I was there, we were working on a master plan. I left.
01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:40.000
Dave Rathbun: And it took, like, 2 or 3 more years for them to get the thing approved.
01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:40.000
Stuart Winchester: All right.
01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:41.000
Dave Rathbun: I mean…
01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:47.000
Dave Rathbun: This stuff just, it depends on where you are and who you’re working with.
01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:58.000
Dave Rathbun: But a lot of the people that, um, they have had have cycled through, and now they’ve got a whole new… a whole new crop of people running these forests.
01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:02.000
Dave Rathbun: And then that’s just the forest side of it. In our situation, we’re part on…
01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:14.000
Dave Rathbun: Forest Service land in part on county land. So, in the past, we didn’t have a county development code. And ever since they passed one in 2020.
01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:18.000
Dave Rathbun: here in La Plata County, Colorado.
01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:23.000
Dave Rathbun: It’s kinda weird. They they are kinda looking at the ski area like it was never here.
01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:24.000
Stuart Winchester: Hmm. Okay.
01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:39.000
Dave Rathbun: So, what… what held up that cool water lift was the county made us make… go through a major land use process, which put us in front of the planning commission and public comment, and finally in front of the.
01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:46.000
Dave Rathbun: the Board of County Commissioners who have the final say on any major land use in our county. And we…
01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:53.000
Dave Rathbun: We had to go through it like there was never a ski area here. So we’re we’re working with them to try to sort that out so that.
01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:51.000
Stuart Winchester: Cheers.
01:03:53.000 --> 01:04:03.000
Dave Rathbun: you know, this Lift 4 project, the gondola, is another one of these, so it starts on private land and goes up on the Forest Service land. So…
01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:03.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:08.000
Dave Rathbun: It’s just a different day and age, and…
01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:13.000
Dave Rathbun: These regulations never seem to go away, they only get a little bit more intense.
01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:29.000
Dave Rathbun: So, you just have to have a good attitude and frankly, for how much time and effort is required to keep the balls in the air and keep, you know, I’ll use the football analogy. We got to just keep matriculating down that field, right? Just got to keep moving.
01:04:29.000 --> 01:04:40.000
Dave Rathbun: I spend pretty much 80% of my time on that now. I want to get all of these projects done so that we’re entitled, and when we get the word go, we’re ready to go.
01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:43.000
Stuart Winchester: That’s great insight, Dave.
01:04:43.000 --> 01:05:01.000
Stuart Winchester: I think we need some kind of major reform, but I don’t know what that is. And certainly you’ve seen things that work better in your career, but you got it done. And it sounds like you have another expansion and a whole bunch more things coming up. So listen, cannot thank you enough for your time. Congratulations on getting all this done. I’m hoping for a deep winter.
01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:17.000
Stuart Winchester: for you and everyone out west, uh, because I’ve got… I got… I had a trip out to, uh, Colorado. I got there in February. I was like, oh, the back bowls will be open at Vail, for sure. No, they didn’t open until halfway through my trip, so… so really hoping it’s a deep one for you, but thanks so much for.
01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:22.000
Dave Rathbun: My pleasure. Snow on the peaks right out here behind me right now.
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:27.000
Stuart Winchester: Is it really? Okay. All right. All right. Well, I’ll, uh, hopefully I can get out there to ski that expansion this year.
01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:29.000
Dave Rathbun: All right, man. Take care.
01:05:28.000 --> 01:05:31.000
Stuart Winchester: All right, take care, Dave. Thanks so much. Bye.
