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The Zoom transcript (click “transcript” above for the Substack transcript, which will zoom to any point in the video when you click on the associated text block; timestamps below DO NOT MATCH THE VIDEO)
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Stuart Winchester: Welcome to the Storm! It is September 8th, 2026, and if you are a Storm regular, you are probably wondering what in the heck is going on here.
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Stuart Winchester: Today, we are launching an all-new format for the Storm Skiing Podcast.
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Stuart Winchester: It is shorter, it is news-focused, it will be more frequent, and it will publish the same day that I record it in just about every instance.
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Stuart Winchester: So.
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Stuart Winchester: It’s gonna have a lot of different elements. Uh, takes just…
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Stuart Winchester: on whatever’s happening in the news.
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Stuart Winchester: Okay, let’s scrap that and let’s start again.
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Stuart Winchester: Okay, starting from the top.
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Stuart Winchester: 3.
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Stuart Winchester: Q.
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Stuart Winchester: One.
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Stuart Winchester: Welcome to the Storm! I’m your host, Stuart Winchester. It is September 8th, 2026, and I would like to welcome you all to a brand new version of the Storm Skiing Podcast.
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Stuart Winchester: So, the long-form podcast…
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Stuart Winchester: has been the default of the Storm Skiing Podcast since I launched in 2019.
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Stuart Winchester: Very proud of the Storm Skiing podcast.
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Stuart Winchester: We’re at episode 227.
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Stuart Winchester: I have interviewed the leaders of nearly every large ski area in America, and the leaders of most of the large ski companies in America.
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Stuart Winchester: But something started to feel a little bit off.
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Stuart Winchester: And, you know, I started to think about the kind of podcasts that I consume.
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Stuart Winchester: And those are mostly, frankly, around Michigan football, uh, which is my other obsession besides ski-ski-ski-ski-ski-ski-ski-ski-s.
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Stuart Winchester: tend to be much more news-focused. They tend to be much shorter than the Storm Skiing Podcast. They tend to publish the same day that they record them, and they tend to break down current events. For example, I just went to a Michigan football game.
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Stuart Winchester: on Saturday in Ann Arbor. If you’re even remotely a sports fan, you probably saw the controversial ending to that game when Michigan got an extra second added on, and Bryce Underwood, the quarterback, tossed a Hail Mary to win the game when JJ Buchanan, our transfer receiver, came down with the ball.
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Stuart Winchester: That’s never happened in the history of Michigan football, to have a Hail Mary ending that Michigan wins. So, on the way home, it’s a 10-hour drive back to New York, my wife and I listened to all the different Michigan podcasts that were breaking down that moment. And I realized that…
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Stuart Winchester: as much as I like the Storm Skiing Podcast, and as much as a lot of other people like it, I was not really making the kind of podcast that I actually listen to. And that’s a problem, because in our current media environment, people have a lot of choice.
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Stuart Winchester: They have a lot of of.
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Stuart Winchester: different things they can give their attention to, and it’s hard to get and keep their attention. So, I want to say right off, I am not killing the long-form storm skiing podcast. It will not end with episode 227. In fact, I have about 5 or 6 in the can that I’ve been sitting on.
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Stuart Winchester: for this news, and I will release those soon, and my thanks to the folks who participated in those podcasts for their everlasting patience as I got this together. So, I’m still gonna make the Storm Skiing Podcast. The frequency will go from about 45 a year at its peak.
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Stuart Winchester: It’s probably about a dozen a year or so, and sometimes there will just be a time when the long form is the more appropriate form for telling the story of a mountain. If I have someone new on, for example, so for example, I’ve never had.
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Stuart Winchester: Uh, the GM or owner of Sierra at Tahoe in California, an important mountain on the podcast. Never had Wolf Creek on the podcast, never had Mount Baker. If I were to get one of those folks, I would want to do a long form, tell the story of the ski area. But it’s not always necessary to.
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Stuart Winchester: Tell the entire story of the ski area and its history and its culture when you just want to talk about a new lift or you just want to talk about the fact that it joined a new pass. So this shorter podcast will be more frequent.
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Stuart Winchester: It will have different segments, segments with takes when I just talk about what’s going on. It will still have interviews, much shorter interviews. Today we have an interview with an awesome guest, Snow Partner CEO Joe Heschen, one of the smartest guys in skiing.
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Stuart Winchester: But before, Joe and I went on for two hours. This time, we’ll be able to condense it down. And then at the end of each episode, my intent.
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Stuart Winchester: and hope is to have reader interaction, and this will be a feature available only to paid supporters of the Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast, and you can upgrade to a paid subscription at stormskiing.com anytime. The podcast will be for everyone, as it’s always been.
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Stuart Winchester: But only paid subscribers will be able to interact with the podcast. And the way that they will be able to do that is that they will be able to write a comment on the article that accompanies the newsletter on stormskiing.com.
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Stuart Winchester: And the next day, I will read some of those comments and react to them as appropriate. And I’ll talk a little bit more about that later and why I’m doing it that way. But for now, I want to assure you.
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Stuart Winchester: This podcast is going to come to you the same way your podcasts always have. Now, there is a video version. You can watch that on YouTube, will be our primary channel, as well as Substack, which is where the newsletter is published. There will always, always, always be an audio version.
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Stuart Winchester: And it will always come to the same places that you have always gotten the podcast. If that’s Apple, if that’s Spotify, there’s some that I don’t even know.
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Stuart Winchester: how the podcast got on there, or why it’s on there. There’s an RSS feed that spits this out from Substack. That will not change. The storm will be… when you go looking for it, you’re going to find the storm.
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Stuart Winchester: So.
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Stuart Winchester: This is something I’m super excited about because I think it will allow me to have a lot more guests a lot more often.
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Stuart Winchester: there are so many great minds in skiing right now, and I feel like there’s a lot of negative sentiment around skiing and the way it’s evolving. There’s a lot of talk of a duopoly.
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Stuart Winchester: But from my point of view.
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Stuart Winchester: there’s not a duopoly in a way that is dominating all consumer choice. And the reason I have that point of view is I’m having conversations every single day with smart people.
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Stuart Winchester: thinking far ahead and doing great things to change skiing in ways that make skiing better, that make skiing access better. People like Joe Hesham, my guest today, people like Eric Mogenson, who runs the Indy Pass, people like John Schaefer, who runs a handful of mountains.
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Stuart Winchester: in the East, people like Rick Schmitz, who runs three ski areas in the Midwest. Small ski area operators like Tim Meyer at Caber Fay in Michigan, who we’ll talk about a little bit later. So, I’m talking to these people all the time, and I’m seeing the independent ski areas are really, for the most part, doing fine. I’m seeing.
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Stuart Winchester: Huge investment. I’m seeing huge innovation and.
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Stuart Winchester: Because of the frequency of the podcast, and because of the laborious nature of turning interviews into written content.
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Stuart Winchester: I don’t think that I’m getting that to you in the way that I would like, in, in, in the way that you deserve. I want you to be part of this conversation. I want you to see why I’m so optimistic about skiing right now. I want you to know why I feel that skiing is in its best.
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Stuart Winchester: place, historically, that it has ever been, at least in America.
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Stuart Winchester: Now, it certainly has problems, and we will get into those as well.
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Stuart Winchester: I don’t answer to anyone. I don’t answer to the operators. I don’t have a boss. I answer to my subscribers, and that’s it. The only thing I care about is the truth.
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Stuart Winchester: Uh, and my optimism does not come from any desire to have access or anything else. My… my…
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Stuart Winchester: My content and my commitment to the truth.
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Stuart Winchester: comes from wanting to deliver a great journalistic product. Uh, and there’s gonna be opinion and analysis. You’re not always going to agree with what I say, and that’s good! I wanna remind people that. That’s good. If you agree with everything I say, I have no value. I can tell you that all of my guests.
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Stuart Winchester: disagree with things I say, but the reason they keep coming back.
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Stuart Winchester: And the reason that I hope they will keep coming back is because I’m trying to be fair, I’m trying to work within the bounds of the truth, and I’m not…
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Stuart Winchester: Jumping to these huge accusatory.
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Stuart Winchester: narratives that we see so often with the Mega Passes and with the big consolidators, Vale and Altera. So, I want to give a different perspective, I want to give it more frequently. The newsletter, one more point, the newsletter will stay the same. There will always be written content.
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Stuart Winchester: I am still a writer with a podcast, not a podcaster with a newsletter, though I kind of have to admit at this point that I am.
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Stuart Winchester: a podcaster, even though that sounds… I don’t know, it sounds a little… pretentious, or juvenile, or uh… like I’m…
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Stuart Winchester: you know, doing this as a side hustle while I drive for Uber, but… but no, this is my full-time job. The Storm is and has been my full-time job for a couple of years. Now, the reason I want to switch to a news-based podcast is for days like today, because today we have.
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Stuart Winchester: Huge news.
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Stuart Winchester: One of my favorite ski areas.
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Stuart Winchester: One of the best ski areas in the eastern United States.
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Stuart Winchester: Uh, depending on your point of view, maybe one of the best ski areas in the United States.
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Stuart Winchester: is joining a Malta Mountain Pass for the first time.
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Stuart Winchester: That is Smuggler’s Notch, Vermont. Smuggs is an incredible place.
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Stuart Winchester: For a lot of reasons. Number one, if you don’t live in the East, and you’re under the impression that the East is an ice ball, and the vertical drops are short, and the mountains are small.
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Stuart Winchester: You’re wrong. You’re just wrong. And there is a snow. There’s plenty of big mountains in the east. First of all, there’s plenty of good snow pockets in the east. One of the best snow pockets is in northern Vermont, and you have a line of resorts.
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Stuart Winchester: We call it the spine of the Green Mountains. Starts at Killington Pico, goes up to Sugarbush, which is in Alterra Mountain. Right next door is Mad River Glen, the famous Indy with the single chair. North of that is Bolton Valley, which is on Indy Pass. North of that is Stowe, which is owned by V.
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Stuart Winchester: On the backside of Stowe is Smuggler’s Notch, and then north of that is Jay Peak. Smuggler’s Notch joins IndyPass today, and here are the stats.
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Stuart Winchester: It is a 2610 foot vertical drop that is the fourth tallest in the east. It has one smug says 1060 skiable acres that they claim there’s actually more in the woods. If you count the back bowls and some of the secret stashes.
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Stuart Winchester: Off of the Sterling lift. So that makes it the fourth largest ski area in the east. It is the second snowiest ski area in the east after Jay Peak, which is also an IndyPass partner with 322in of snowfall.
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Stuart Winchester: On average per winter. Yes, that’s a lot. That’s those are Vail numbers. Those are Colorado numbers. No, it’s not Cottonwoods, but it’s deep enough that those ski areas almost always have tree skiing from the beginning.
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Stuart Winchester: from around Christmas through the end of the season. I’ve skied Glades at Stowe in April many times. I’ve done the same at Jay Peak. So, the snow coverage really.
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Stuart Winchester: comes and it really falls. Mount Mansfield, which is where Stowe is, right next to Smuggs, is the tallest mountain in Vermont, and they have a snow stake there that consistently builds up to around 60 inches or so for the season. So, Smuggs joins Indy Pass.
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Stuart Winchester: today. It is the… and, and, and, and… No Blackouts on Indie Bass Pass, which goes on sale today to the general public, or actually maybe tomorrow it goes on sale, for… $419.
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Stuart Winchester: The ND…
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Stuart Winchester: Plus is 469. So I’ll give you a few stats here. So Indy with adding smugs, that is the 43rd Alpine lift serve ski area that Indy has added for the 2026 to 2027.
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Stuart Winchester: Winter.
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Stuart Winchester: That gives them a total. Now, my totals are going to be a little different than Indy’s because they’re counting cross-country ski areas. And I’m leaving those off. And I also count sometimes two ski areas, as one when they’re when they’re separate entities. But but they share days.
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Stuart Winchester: So Indy now has 256 ski areas, lift-served alpine downhill ski areas, which get two days each. So they have more than you could possibly use. That includes 148 ski areas in the United States.
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Stuart Winchester: 32 in Canada, 39 in Europe, and 32 in Japan. You can ski 30% of all ski areas in America on Indy.
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Stuart Winchester: Now, on the flip side, Indy also had some important losses this winter. They lost, and they’re all in the Midwest, and Indy’s lost mountains before, and with a roster that big, you’re gonna have some turnover. Uh, but the first wave of losses came back.
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Stuart Winchester: in past release season in March, when the three areas owned by Midwest Family Ski Resorts, some of the best operators in the country, uh, they own Lutzen Mountain in Minnesota.
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Stuart Winchester: one of the largest ski areas in the Midwest, uh, Granite Peak in Wisconsin, which has 3 high-speed lifts, and Snow River, which is really 2 side-by-side ski areas and a nice snow belt in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula. They left for Icon Pass.
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Stuart Winchester: Now, there’s a little bit of a historical precedent there, because those three ski areas had been on the Max Pass, which had been the immediate predecessor, along with the Rocky Mountain Super Pass, to the Icon Pass. Uh, the…
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Stuart Winchester: Icon Pass, when it debuted in 2018, left off Snow River, Granite Peak, and Lutzen. And I always thought, well, Snow River wasn’t a part of Midwest Family at the time, but I always thought that was a mistake. So I’m not surprised to see them go, but those were big drivers of Indy Pass sales.
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Stuart Winchester: Because those are marquee mountains in the Midwest. They also recently lost…
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Stuart Winchester: Another three mountains run by another great operator in Wisconsin, Little Switzerland, Crystal Ridge, and Nordic Mountain. Now, these are small ski areas. They’re feeder ski areas, but they’re important ski areas because Rick is a very smart guy. He’s very influential.
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Stuart Winchester: And he has a lot of influence in the ski business, including being part of the board of directors of the National Skiers Association. Everyone respects him. They also lost Cabar Fay, one of my favorite mountains in Michigan. It was my pseudo-home mountain when I lived in Michigan as a teenager.
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Stuart Winchester: I have a lot of respect for Tim and Pete Meyer, who run that over there. So, I’ll talk a little bit more…
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Stuart Winchester: about that with Joe, because I think there’s going to be some crossover with the snow pass. So, quickly, before we get to our guest, I want to tell you about Profile Search International.
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Stuart Winchester: A lot of you come to this podcast to hear from the best minds in skiing.
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Stuart Winchester: But what if you want to find one of these great leaders for your own mountain team?
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Stuart Winchester: Well, let me introduce you to the folks at Profile Search International. They are the ski industry talent acquisition experts, and are the only executive search and recruitment firm in the world that is 100% focused on the ski industry.
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Stuart Winchester: They have used their intimate understanding of skiing and related industries and available candidates worldwide to place hundreds of transformational leaders at the best and most progressive ski areas over the past 30 years.
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Stuart Winchester: With offices in the US and Canada, Profile Search finds and negotiates with the right leaders for your team. You can reach out to them directly at profilesearch.com or contact them by email or phone, or send me a note and I will connect you directly with their expert team.
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Stuart Winchester: Okay.
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Stuart Winchester: We are joined.
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Stuart Winchester: As soon as we get a video.
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Stuart Winchester: We are joined today by the founder and CEO of Snow Partners, which owns and operates the Mountain Creek Outdoor Ski Area and the Big Snow American Dream Indoor Ski Areas in New Jersey. Snow Partners’ terrain-based learning program has been used by more than 80 ski resorts worldwide.
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Stuart Winchester: And the company has rolled out its SnowCloud all-in-one resort management software with at least 15 clients, including Jackson Hole, Wyoming. Last year, the company launched the Snow Triple Play Pass, which was good for 3 days, total across 16 ski areas in eastern North America.
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Stuart Winchester: Ahead of Winter 2026-27, Triple Play adds 7 additional mountains, for a total of 23, at a price of $179.
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Stuart Winchester: Snow Partners has also launched the Snow Pass, which is loaded with two days each at 14 ski areas for $339.99. My guest to break all this down for us today is a good friend of the Storm Skiing Podcast, Joe Heschen. Joe, welcome back to the storm. Always good to track you down.
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Joe Hession: Thanks.
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Stuart Winchester: How are you feeling on Snow Pass launch day?
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Joe Hession: You know, it’s launch day for Snow Pass. It’s launch day for Mountain Creek Seasons Passes. So winter’s in the air. Things are happening. It’s really exciting. This is probably my favorite time of year. So thanks for having me on such a special day. Winter’s coming.
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Stuart Winchester: I’ll do it.
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Stuart Winchester: Yeah, and it’s the first day of the new platform for the Storm. So I wanted to get you on first. I’ll admit, I want to do a little bit of a flex because I know you’re a hard guy to track down and you’re doing a lot of cool, interesting things. I want to start with the Snowpass, Joe, because you came on the podcast last year to talk about Snow Triple Play.
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Stuart Winchester: And your launch, and you were pretty…
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Joe Hession: Mm-hmm.
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Stuart Winchester: adamant, you know, this is not a pass. I don’t want to do a pass. And, you know, we talked about it a lot, and I probably harassed you about it a little bit, and now we have a pass!
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Joe Hession: Yep.
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Joe Hession: Mm-hmm.
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Stuart Winchester: So, so tell us about that journey. How did, how did we get from TriplePlay to SnowPass, and, and why do you have the two different products?
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Joe Hession: Yep.
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Joe Hession: Yeah. And, and, you know, you might be very responsible for it because you, you pushed it early on of, you know, why, why would this not be a pass? And, you know, originally we were really following the data and the data we were really focused on was 73% of people ski between one and five days.
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Joe Hession: the price point for that, and we were looking at the data for Mountain Creek with our triple play, and saying, you know, there’s really not a lot of triple plays for multi-resort. That’s kind of a cool, unique concept. So we were really stuck on the data. Obviously, we heard feedback from folks like yourself, and also your other… all your listeners and subscribers, and…
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Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
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Joe Hession: And… but then, it was really our past partners. The people that bought the Triple Play were like, if we had this option, we’d be really happy. They hit us that in our post-survey, they said, we really would like this. Um, and then the resorts. We had great partners on the Triple Play program, and…
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Joe Hession: they came in and said, we would like this as well. So, you know, the model’s been done, and we made the leap to do it. So we’re really excited about it.
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Stuart Winchester: You have a great network to launch, and I think especially if you live in New York Metro, and I want to talk about — I do want to talk about Triple Play, but let’s focus on Snowpass for a minute. The three key mountains here are Bel Air, Gore, and Whiteface.
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Stuart Winchester: These mountains, for those of us who are in the area, we know they’re state subsidized. They’ve gotten a half billion dollars in investment. That’s a whole different subject. We’re going to leave that alone because the result of that for your pass holders is these are awesome ski areas. Bel Air is essentially a brand new ski area.
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Stuart Winchester: And if you’re in New York Metro, you get two days at Mountain Creek, and you get two days at Big Snow, then there’s some little ones. You get up in Connecticut, you have Mount Southington. So you have a really nice network of.
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Stuart Winchester: 14 ski areas, 12 of them are in the east. Talk about that network, Joe, and how deliberate it was that they kind of worked together to create a compelling pass product.
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Joe Hession: Yeah, that’s a great question because that is, you know, we probably look at the world a little differently than people looking at different passes and different programs. And I think you nailed it. Like, you know, with the news last week, you know, sometimes people from Colorado chirp and they, this pass doesn’t make sense for me. I’m like, yeah.
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Joe Hession: Yeah, congratulations. You can read and understand basic logic. So we love our friends in Colorado, we love our friends out west, but this is a pass that’s very regional. It makes so much sense if you live in this area and you’re planning to have those trips and, and, and you might remember this, but years ago.
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Stuart Winchester: Right.
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Joe Hession: at the NSA show, which is the National Ski Association. I was on stage with a bunch of different groups, talking about Epic Pass and ICOM Pass, and this is before we had a Pass product. And I was saying, and I was a little critical too.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:18.000
Joe Hession: you know, listen, I think the high-level past products that exist, which just throw out big numbers, like, you know, 40 of these resorts, these resorts, or 300 resorts, like, it’s cool, but the reality is, is I’m really focused on how does someone actually use it? So if we go back to the skier.
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:35.000
Joe Hession: and the snowboarder, and how do they actually use this pass? And, you know, back in the day, and I love, you know, the industry is much smaller than people, especially your listeners might realize, like, I have a ton of respect for almost everybody. If anyone’s in this business, I respect them, because it’s a really hard business.
00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:36.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:51.000
Joe Hession: And so for us, I’ve always looked at it and said these big pass products that are kind of like overwhelming with the options, like how do people actually use them and where does it drive traffic and traffic to the right places at the right time and stuff like that. So we’re very deliberate.
00:24:51.000 --> 00:25:02.000
Joe Hession: very deliberate in, if you live in New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Long Island, um, upstate New York, parts of Pennsylvania, this is a very compelling pass that not only takes you from the city.
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:18.000
Joe Hession: Because for us, what’s really critical is that kind of warm handshake from, we’re teaching a hundred thousand new people a year to ski at Big Snow. Where do they then go to? And obviously we want them to come to Mountain Creek, but I also want them to go to Whiteface and Bel Air and Gore and Platic Hill.
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:17.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:34.000
Joe Hession: Um, because things like that, that’s kind of how this industry can work together to take people who are new to the sport, or people who are, maybe have never gone. Maybe they always go to Vermont, and we love Vermont, but maybe this is their chance to go up to Whiteface and realize, oh, wow.
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:41.000
Joe Hession: That’s, you know, you can see JP from there, right? So it’s kind of it’s people don’t realize how far north Whiteface is.
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:49.000
Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so you have a really nice network, and I think it’s gonna sell really well. I mean, just even if… even if you just launched.
00:25:49.000 --> 00:26:05.000
Stuart Winchester: a Bel Air Gore Whiteface pass at that price point, I think it would probably sell really well. Uh, but the reality is you’re going up against a very competitive market. So, uh, you look at Epic Pass, not maybe so competitive, you’re doing something different, they don’t have as many mountains in the market. Indy Pass.
00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:20.000
Stuart Winchester: I’m not even sure if you know this yet, because the embargo literally lifted when we started this at 10 a.m. eastern. A smuggler’s notch today announced they are joining the Indy Pass. So the Indy Pass gives you a really nice network of resorts in your neighborhood.
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:14.000
Joe Hession: Yep.
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:34.000
Stuart Winchester: In New England, it has Waterville Valley, Cannon, Jay Peak, Saddleback, and now Smug, some of the best ski areas in the region. It has ski areas all over New York. That goes on sale to the public.
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:50.000
Stuart Winchester: Today or tomorrow, the Indy Pass, they do a fall sale for $419. They have 256 alpine ski areas as of today, including 61 in the western US. They have a big head start, right? They started in 2019, so.
00:26:50.000 --> 00:27:04.000
Stuart Winchester: you’re offering a different product, but it works in the same way, right? SnowPass. Uh, little lower price point, $340 as opposed to $419. What’s your pitch for someone considering SnowPass or IndyPass?
00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:20.000
Joe Hession: Yeah, so, well, well, first let me hit that because it’s, it’s, what’s interesting is, and, and it’s important to kind of explain our background and where we come from. I probably see the world differently than almost everyone involved in this past world. I, I kind of look at it as.
00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:18.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:35.000
Joe Hession: you know, the pitch is, if you live in this area and you want to visit the resorts on our pass, it’s a no-brainer. Not only that, I don’t think we’re going to live in a world where there’s Epic, Icon, Indy, Snow Pass, Mountain Collective.
00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:53.000
Joe Hession: I think we should be trying to live in a world where we democratize skiing back to the skiers and snowboarders, and allow them to make choices in their price points where they want to go, vastly different than it is today. I think these programs, um, really exist because lack of good technology.
00:27:53.000 --> 00:28:08.000
Joe Hession: Like, like, basically, we would have reciprocal programs back years ago with, uh, like, Mound Creek and Killington. And to get that to actually make sense to the guests, where they show up, and it’s seamless, and the money’s able to be traded the right way, wasn’t possible years ago.
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:24.000
Joe Hession: So, for us, you know, and I’ll get to the question of what the pitch directly to Indy, but I see the world so dramatically different than IndyPass. I see a world where independent ski resorts should be working with each other.
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:16.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:43.000
Joe Hession: for the betterment of their guests to share people to different locations that people find interesting. A real-life example is Martok in Nova Scotia and Cape Smoky have a reciprocal program that they’re actually allowed to have… they have one pass that’s able to work at both places and can split the revenue and funding between it.
00:28:43.000 --> 00:29:00.000
Joe Hession: between them. They have common ownership. But they’re both on SnowCloud. So really, you know, our software platform, SnowCloud, which really operates all the things that is involved with Snowpass and Snow TriplePlay, our real pitch long-term, our real pitch of what we’re trying to do with Snowpass.
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:46.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:17.000
Joe Hession: is open up the door to give resort leaders and operators tools where they take out the middleman. And what I mean by the middleman is Wachusett and a resort up in Vermont doesn’t need a third party to organize their pass benefits.
00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:33.000
Joe Hession: They should be doing it directly themselves, using better technology. So, I am calling for a shift, a big shift, in the way that people think of this, of, let’s get away from these big, pillar, clunky things that are these big, like.
00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:46.000
Joe Hession: big, like, kind of ego plays of passes, and let’s take skiing back to the skiers and snowboarders, and let them have direct relationships with the resorts they love, and give these operators great tools to allow that to happen.
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:38.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:50.000
Joe Hession: Um, so that that’s our long term pitch. Yeah.
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:56.000
Stuart Winchester: So let me jump in there. I just want to ask now, I want to follow up on that. So are you saying this snow pass, your goal is to…
00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:01.000
Stuart Winchester: make it extinct at some point? It’s a building block to the next level, is that what you’re saying?
00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:59.000
Joe Hession: Yeah.
00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:01.000
Joe Hession: You…
00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:17.000
Joe Hession: Yeah, what’s interesting is Snowpass, we have no upside in Snowpass. So we’ve been very open and clear about this. And I just want to make sure the goal of Snowpass is secure. We share all of our books openly with all of our resort partners. They can see every transaction, every dollar flow.
00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:18.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:33.000
Joe Hession: There’s overhead in some of the expenses. They get a clear, like, this is the piece that we do that. We originally said it was estimated at 5%. If it ends up becoming 3%, we’ll distribute the rest of that to the resorts. We have no profit margin built into our plan for Snowpass.
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:43.000
Joe Hession: Snowpass to us is the first step in trying to prove the theory of could we remove the middleman from the equation?
00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:58.000
Joe Hession: And we applaud the idea that if you’re on Snowpass, and let’s say that Whiteface wants to now work with Platykill directly, we would celebrate that and see that as a huge win.
00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:14.000
Joe Hession: Because we want resorts to collaborate. If people are real fans of skiing and snowboarding, and they’ve been buying passes for years, and part of it, they know that the beauty of the ski industry is when the ski industry, skiers, snowboarders, the people that operate these resorts, work together.
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:26.000
Joe Hession: they create beautiful things. So we need to give them tools to work together, and also the ability to work together, because some companies restrict people from being able to work with each other, which goes against the spirit of the whole ski industry in the first place.
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:32.000
Stuart Winchester: So if you were… So let’s think of… Let’s do a thought experiment here. So let’s take some…
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:32.000
Joe Hession: Okay.
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:53.000
Stuart Winchester: some resorts that share your operating software, right? So you have Mountain Creek, so you can do whatever you want with it, and you have big snow. I know that, for example, Greek Peak up in upstate New York uses, it’s up near Cornell, sort of central New York for folks who aren’t familiar. It would be a great feeder from Mountain Creek because it has.
00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:40.000
Joe Hession: Yep.
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:45.000
Joe Hession: Mm-hmm.
00:31:53.000 --> 00:32:09.000
Stuart Winchester: a resort feel, and it’s a big mountain, and it has a nice hotel across the street with a water park and everything. So you have, uh, Greek Beak, and then you signed Jackson Hole, right? So would an example be that if you were a…
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:05.000
Joe Hession: Yeah.
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:13.000
Stuart Winchester: Mountain Creek Passholder, you could somehow…
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:25.000
Stuart Winchester: Mountain Creek could sign a deal with Greek Peak for shorter-term visits and Jackson Hole for longer-term. Is that the goal, and how would that be different from a pass we have now?
00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:40.000
Joe Hession: Yeah, so, yeah, well, because it could be priced exactly to the price, it would make sense to the consumer. Because right now, and remember, when people buy an IndiePass or a pass like that, there’s an idea that all these resorts, like, I’m a big fan of IndiePass.
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:57.000
Joe Hession: Pareto charts, the 80/20 rule. I will guess, not knowing anything about their business, that 80% of the revenue is made up of 20% of the resorts and the visits. I will almost guarantee it because that’s how statistics works. So when you have huge numbers, it starts to cloud the efficiency of it, right?
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:53.000
Stuart Winchester: Yeah.
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:17.000
Joe Hession: So to me, I look at and say, yeah, so a program where it’s like if Mountain Creek went to Greek Peak and said, we want to have a reciprocal program where if someone uses this, it seamlessly just works at the lift. So imagine someone took their Mountain Creek pass, went and rode the lift at Greek Peak and boom, the transaction happened. The guests never even knew it happened.
00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:12.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:18.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:32.000
Joe Hession: the business relationship worked, and then we shared data to basically say, oh, this is a Mountain Creek and Greek Peak guest. Now you guys can market directly to them and hopefully get them to come for a longer stay next time. That’s where I… that’s where I would love to have it, and Greek Peak’s a great example.
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:40.000
Joe Hession: We’re great partners with them. We love that resort. They’ve been great early adopters of SnowCloud. We’re not allowed to have a reciprocal program with them at Mountain Creek or Big.
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:58.000
Joe Hession: They’re, they’re contractly obligated not to work with anyone other than who they work with, which is, which to me is just wild. And I think most people don’t realize that that’s how it works. And, you know, the last thing we need is, is the middleman kind of inserting themselves into controlling how people operate. It’s just.
00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:10.000
Joe Hession: So… so I would love… I see a future like that. Currently, unfortunately, with a place like Repeat, we’re not allowed to work with them. We’re… we’re… and… and I mean not on Snowpass. We can’t have a reciprocal…
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:16.000
Joe Hession: We can’t give someone a discount if they’re a Mountain Creek holder to go to Greek Peak. It’s.
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.000
Stuart Winchester: Yeah, and great.
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.000
Joe Hession: Less rules. We need less rules.
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:29.000
Stuart Winchester: Yeah, Greek Peak has worked with IndiePass since 2019. They’ve been an original partner over there. I want to get to that in a second. You know, I…
00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:20.000
Joe Hession: Okay.
00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:44.000
Stuart Winchester: I don’t know if I see a post-pass world, because I like a menu, I like the big passes. However, what I think you’re describing could solve is the free visit problem.
00:34:44.000 --> 00:35:02.000
Stuart Winchester: because I know Indian Ski Cooper, for example, had a dust-up a few years ago because Ski Cooper was essentially… India accused him of essentially creating a national pass, and that was probably my fault because I wrote an article that said, hey, look at this secret national pass for 300 bucks in Colorado. Nonetheless, it’s a lot of…
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:56.000
Joe Hession: Mm-hmm.
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:19.000
Stuart Winchester: Free visits and you have mountains like Bogus Basin in, in Idaho that are still giving away a lot of free visits. Now, Bogus is a great business and, and it’s doing well and they have a surplus and, and they’ve evolved great in the past decade or so. Uh, but, but it seems like that could really solve that.
00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:13.000
Joe Hession: Yep.
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:26.000
Stuart Winchester: free visits problem, where there is some revenue sharing. Is that part of what you’re trying to solve here?
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:41.000
Joe Hession: 100%. And you see the big players do it, right? Like a big thing about us too is I’m not against anything. I think Indie is fantastic. And it’s very important to point this out. I think that is, but I also think Epic and Icon are great.
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:35.000
Stuart Winchester: Okay.
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:42.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:57.000
Joe Hession: Like, I’ll put it this way, operating a small resort here in New Jersey, Mountain Creek, or Big Snow, there are things that Vail does so much better than us that we wish we had the resources they have. Now, with that said, we do things way better than Vail does, and they wish they had the resources.
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:51.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:14.000
Joe Hession: Or the ability to do what we can do, right? And, you know, there’s an old commercial years ago that there was, like, a big boardroom, and the boardroom, they’re like, I wonder what the little guys are doing. And then all of a sudden, it showed the people in, like, the startup, and they’re like, I wonder what the big guys are doing. So, we’re all in the same business, and we’re.
00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:00.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:06.000
Stuart Winchester: Yeah.
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:32.000
Joe Hession: some of the things they’ve done to try to cure their own things. They own most of their resorts on their program, so they’re gonna do things the way that benefits them, because they own all those resorts together. And they’ve tried to solve these problems in similar ways, and I think learning from them on that stuff, same thing with Icon is doing similar stuff to that.
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:35.000
Joe Hession: Um, but yeah, I think…
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:44.000
Joe Hession: that’s exactly what we’re trying to solve. We’re trying to solve… we want resorts to have relationships that make sense to the consumer. Like, for example.
00:36:44.000 --> 00:37:00.000
Joe Hession: Who is going to go, and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll focus on someone else for a minute. Who’s gonna, who’s gonna go to 40 resorts in a year on a certain pass? Nobody. Nobody. Skiers are smarter than that. No one’s doing that. What they’re doing, if you buy an Epic or Icon.
00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:57.000
Stuart Winchester: Right.
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:08.000
Joe Hession: in the real world, the conversation goes, um, oh, I live in New York? Great. What pass are my friends buying?
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:24.000
Joe Hession: Because where are they going to go this year? Where do we want to take our family trip? Oh, and it just happened. My wife and I, our family, we have a place in Snowmass. So every year, we have some friends who are like, I want to come out to Snowmass. Well, they buy an IconPass. Their decision is made based on, oh.
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:11.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:18.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:43.000
Joe Hession: your condo’s available, I can go, I’m gonna lock in an Icon Pass. That’s how consumers actually work. So, to me, it’s like, I agree with you, I love the big passes, I don’t think they should go away. I think there’s a great place for India, I think there’s a great place for Icon, I think there’s a great place for Epic Pass. There might be a great place for Snowpass.
00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:59.000
Joe Hession: But I also get really excited about other options. And I feel like we’re at this disruptive time where we’re seeing the results of these passes and kind of the rubs that are rubbing people the wrong way. And I think it might be time with technology that we can kind of.
00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:57.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:06.000
Joe Hession: take it to the next level. Like, you know, we’re talking about the evolution of, you know, major.
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:21.000
Joe Hession: uh, success has been done, and there’s been some learnings, right? Like… like, the pictures of the long lines and stuff, uh, that we see every holiday or powder day, like, is a result of the PASS program. It’s a result of this, it’s an output of that, and I think there’s ways we can maybe.
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:37.000
Joe Hession: Make it better where the skier gets a better choice, a better experience, and then the resorts get to share in different ways. So really, at the end of the day, I think it’s a technology driven way to better collaborate for the betterment of the ski experience to democratize.
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:35.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:42.000
Joe Hession: It’s kind of the price and take out the middleman is really, is really my pitch.
00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:44.000
Stuart Winchester: So, Joy, I appreciate…
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:45.000
Joe Hession: I’d like to remove myself from the equation eventually.
00:38:44.000 --> 00:39:01.000
Stuart Winchester: You know, the problem with you removing yourself from the equation, Joe, is that everyone I talk to really likes working with Snow Partners, your team. They like the train-based learning, they like your operating software.
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:55.000
Joe Hession: Yeah.
00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:16.000
Stuart Winchester: And I appreciate that spirit of Bonhomie, and you’re right, the ski industry is small, and it was smaller than I would have imagined, and it was more welcoming than I would have imagined. I’m not sure if you read the lawsuit.
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:25.000
Stuart Winchester: The most recent one filed against Veil Altera, Boyne Powder, the National Skier Association and and RRC. And it’s built.
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:21.000
Joe Hession: Yep.
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:34.000
Stuart Winchester: the case for the lawsuit is built on accusations of collusion. Using a lot of.
00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:33.000
Joe Hession: Yep.
00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:50.000
Stuart Winchester: kind of fluffy evidence of people getting together at NSAA shows and basically sharing data and sharing best practices. I think all industries do this. Now, I’m going somewhere with this.
00:39:50.000 --> 00:40:07.000
Stuart Winchester: I appreciate that, and I think IndyPass, a lot of people love working with them. However, maybe a little more conflict would be good for the ski industry, because one thing I’ve seen as I’ve been reading old newspaper clippings is ski operators used to talk a lot more junk to each other, like, oh, Summit County, Colorado does.
00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:17.000
Stuart Winchester: more skier visits to the whole state of Utah. Obviously, those days are over, but there used to be a little more smack talk. So let me get into a little controversy here, and you can address this as you want.
00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:13.000
Joe Hession: Yep.
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:17.000
Joe Hession: Yeah.
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:34.000
Stuart Winchester: As you said, Indy Pass does not share. You have been willing to share and and the snow triple or snow pass shares two mountains, Bromance in Quebec and Whiteface with Mountain Collective and three.
00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:45.000
Stuart Winchester: Uh, Butternut, Jiminy Peak, and Cranmore with the Icon today. You and Indy are both claiming Snow King, you’re both telling me it’s locked in, uh, and…
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:55.000
Stuart Winchester: Indy’s telling me it’s only gonna be on Indy, so… there’s a little conflict for ya. Uh, how are you approaching that, and what do you think about the scenario?
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.000
Joe Hession: Yeah, yeah.
00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:00.000
Joe Hession: Yeah, so we’re talking about Snow King specifically?
00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:02.000
Stuart Winchester: Yes, Snow King specifically.
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:10.000
Joe Hession: Yeah, so specifically Snow King, we have a signed agreement with Snow King. We’re very excited to work with Snow King.
00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:08.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:23.000
Joe Hession: Uh, Snow King would love to have visits, uh, come from us, and they are on our website, and we launched with Snow King. Um, that’s where we’re at. Um, you know, as far as what’s going on with them in Indy.
00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:39.000
Joe Hession: Um, I’ll kind of let them speak to that to themselves, but from what I understand, which I’ll take some liberties and say what I think is going on, is there is a clause in an IndyPass that if someone leaves the IndyPass program.
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:55.000
Joe Hession: They have to not work with anyone for another year. And it’s kind of buried in the fine details. So I think what happened is I think they were off that pass, planned to be off that pass, maybe wasn’t familiar with that clause, and then signed an agreement with us.
00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:10.000
Joe Hession: So for me, so the big question is, hey, so here’s the choices as we sit today. We have a signed agreement. We’ve told Snow King, if this is going to hurt you, we never want to hurt you. So we are 100% willing to do whatever that takes.
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:12.000
Joe Hession: to do it.
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:17.000
Joe Hession: But, you know, we’re not gonna just, like, bow down, because at the end of the day.
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:31.000
Joe Hession: It’s also on Indy, and maybe they… maybe they signed an agreement that wasn’t… that was not the right thing to do. We have a signed agreement. They’re on our paths, right? Um, at the end of the day, there’s one person who can make a big choice here.
00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:27.000
Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:32.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:37.000
Joe Hession: Is Indy gonna sue Snow King because of this clause in the piece?
00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:54.000
Joe Hession: I read in the Boston Globe that Eric Mogensen is going to, like, change and save skiing. Is he going to sue a small ski resort? Like, and I know that’s blunt, but I would put the ball right back in his court. I would love to, you know, if he sues Snow King.
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:45.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:42:54.000 --> 00:43:12.000
Joe Hession: That would be an insane thing. And I think he should go out to everyone and say, you know what, we’re not going to litigate. You know, I know he hasn’t been operating a ski resort long, and I have a ton of respect because of the fact that the fact that he’s a GM of a ski resort, the fact that he’s operating a ski resort, there’s not a single person. And I respect him.
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:27.000
Joe Hession: I really do. I really do. There’s just one piece that we don’t see eye to eye on. And it’s… he’s told me he’s the anti-collaborator, and I am the ultimate collaborator. So when you get us in the ring together, it’s one is super collaboration and one isn’t. And so to me.
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Joe Hession: I think, you know, the more he operates a ski resort, he’s gonna realize that litigation is one of the hardest things we have to deal with in the ski business. We have realities of things that happen at ski resorts that involve litigation.
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Joe Hession: suing each other is just a waste of time. Like, what are we doing? Like, we should be, like, we need… we should be talking about skiing and snowboarding, and we should be thinking.
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Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
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Joe Hession: how many visits can Indy give Snow King? I would love for them to get a ton of visits. How many visits can Snow Pass give Snow King? Let’s get Snow King visits. Let’s give people options. And just because of, like, some, uh, you know, red tape in a contract, we’re then gonna threaten and clause, like.
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Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
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Joe Hession: So that’s… so here’s… so I gave you probably more than I should have, but… and I’m sure Hugh is no longer looking at me, so he… but he didn’t give me the hook, so I’m still talking, right, Hugh? We’re good? So, I’m sure… you know, but you’ll definitely… you wanted to have, you know, for this inaugural session, you wanted to have some stories. This is a story.
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Joe Hession: The story is, the reality is, the truth is, that they were under contract, Indy, from what I understand, which they’ve told me, they wrote they are no longer to work, they gave them the right.
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Joe Hession: I’m out. This is the time you’re supposed to be out. They were unaware of this one clause, which we were also unaware of. We signed, we moved forward, we announced. After announcement, it was, no, you can’t do that. So, really, right now, I think Snow King would gladly take visits from both.
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Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.
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Joe Hession: We would gladly take visits from both.
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Joe Hession: Ball’s in Mogensen’s court, we’ll see what he does. I guess the best way to approach this is publicly. So, here.
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Stuart Winchester: And he…
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Stuart Winchester: I agree, and Eric is scheduled to be on this podcast on Thursday, so he will have his chance to respond. And you know what, Joe, you’re welcome back anytime to respond. But before you go out the door, I do want… I did promise to keep these short, and I know for you and I.
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:07.000
Joe Hession: Perfect!
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:12.000
Joe Hession: Yep.
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:16.000
Joe Hession: Yep.
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Stuart Winchester: Both, that’s a challenge. I do want to call out some of these awesome new triple play partners, uh, Jiminy Peak and Cramore, especially. I have a ton of respect for the Fairbanks and, and, uh, what, and what they do. Uh, Bromont is, is an excellent.
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:28.000
Joe Hession: Yeah.
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Stuart Winchester: edition, and Hallamont. Actually, Hallamont is on Snow Pass as well, which is a terrific skier. I never realized until I went there this year. It’s just because it’s private on the weekends and in public during the week. What do you have to do to convince some of these folks, especially Jiminy Cranmore Bromont, to jump over to Snow Pass? Do you think there’s a path there?
00:45:52.000 --> 00:46:10.000
Joe Hession: Yeah, you know, I do. I think it’s kind of proving it out over time, but also making, you know, going back to what I said earlier, maybe the right product for them is a relationship with different resorts, right? Maybe it’s a whole new version of what happens, but I think we’re very lucky to have them on the program.
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:25.000
Joe Hession: Both operators are fantastic. Brian and Tyler Fairbank, we go back really far. Like, they were early adopters of us with snow operating and train-based learning. Brian Fairbank, if people don’t know, is one of the godfathers of snowmaking in the industry.
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:16.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:40.000
Joe Hession: He’s still at it. He’s in his 80s. He’s out there making snow. I mean, he’s an absolute legend. So anytime we get to work with him and his resort partners, we’re really happy. Tyler, we’ve obviously known for well over a decade and a half as well.
00:46:40.000 --> 00:47:00.000
Joe Hession: great resorts, we’ve loved visiting them, and I think they’re great operators, so I think people are going to love discovering them. And that’s, you know, one thing I’ll give a lot of credit to Indy for, which has opened our eyes, is the fact that there’s so many passes on the program, there’s the fact that there’s all these different options. People learn new places they’ve never learned before, right? And I think Epic and I kind of have done the same.
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:55.000
Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:15.000
Joe Hession: You know, I never thought of going to Crested Butte, but because it’s on the Epic Pass, I’m going to go to Crested Butte, or I never thought of going to this resort, but because of it. And I think that’s been a huge success. And it’s great to hear you say, like, Hollymont, like, oh, I didn’t know that much about the.
00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:05.000
Stuart Winchester: Yep.
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Joe Hession: I think that’s the spirit. The spirit is, how do you take skiers from different regions and inspire them to want to go to somewhere else and make that transaction seamless and easy for the operators to navigate, is really our goal.
00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:49.000
Stuart Winchester: It’s such a rich world, and I love how you’re helping folks explore it. Leave us with this, Joe. Where can we buy Snowpass? And I believe you said you’re selling a limited number. You probably won’t tell me that number, but how soon should folks go to where you’re going to tell us to go before they’re going to lose this special price of, I believe, 340 for Snowpass and 179?
00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:52.000
Stuart Winchester: For the triple play.
00:47:52.000 --> 00:48:05.000
Joe Hession: Correct. So, so 4pm today, mysnowpass.com, uh, it’s gonna be a limited release. Uh, if you know the Mound Creek world, and you know how we do it, it’s actually Mound Creek’s on the clock right now.
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:22.000
Joe Hession: Um, we’ve been selling for 31 minutes, so I’m gonna get an update when we get off the call here, but at 4 o’clock, we will have our watch party with our group in the kind of war room. We’re watching the transactions live. We have a number that we have promised ourselves we will not exceed, and it’ll shut itself down at that number.
00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:09.000
Stuart Winchester: Okay.
00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:40.000
Joe Hession: Um, so 4PM today will be, uh… will be the birth of a new product in the industry, which hopefully will inspire other new products down the road, and… and hopefully start to change the relationship between resorts and… and the skiers, because that’s what it’s about. It’s about getting skiers the best price for the best mountains, new… doing new things, and working together.
00:48:40.000 --> 00:49:00.000
Joe Hession: And we have a beautiful industry of resorts, but we have great customers. People who are skiers and snowboarders are so passionate. Like, I read everything they post on your stuff. You know, the comments have been just amazing. And, you know, we’re looking forward to, over time, I want to make that person in Colorado that keeps saying, this pass stinks, has nothing to do for me.
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:51.000
Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:09.000
Joe Hession: I want to eventually win them over by giving them a product that does make sense for them or allowing resorts there to find a product that works for them. So it’s really exciting day.
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:17.000
Stuart Winchester: Colorado bro is very proud of Colorado. Uh, last year, Joe, you sold Snow Triple Play, I believe, until Christmas Eve. You have a similar schedule in mind for these two passes this year?
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:11.000
Joe Hession: Yes.
00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:32.000
Joe Hession: Yeah, exactly the same schedule. So they’ll be… the best price will be the launches. So today will be the lowest possible price, it’ll scale up in another drop, and then it’ll be on sale for a little bit at its full retail price, and then it’ll turn off at that time. Exactly.
00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:20.000
Stuart Winchester: Okay.
00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:51.000
Stuart Winchester: Joe, so good to run you down. Good luck with the launch. I can’t wait to see how it goes, and how this thing grows, and frankly, how this little controversy between Snowpass and Indypass resolves itself, because I’m sure that you will find a way through it. So, thank you so much for being my first guest on the new platform. I really appreciate it.
00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:35.000
Joe Hession: Yes.
00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:51.000
Joe Hession: Okay.
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:54.000
Stuart Winchester: You’re welcome on anytime. We’ll talk to you really soon.
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:56.000
Joe Hession: Great. Thanks for having me.
00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:57.000
Stuart Winchester: All right, take care, Joe. Bye now.
00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:00.000
Stuart Winchester: Alright, so…
00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:03.000
Stuart Winchester: Uh, what do you…
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:23.000
Stuart Winchester: Okay, so that was Joe Heschen, the CEO of Snow Partners and the founder. Quick update from another partner before I wrap up the show today. If you run a ski area or outdoor brand, I want to tell you about my friends at Bonfire Collective.
00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:35.000
Stuart Winchester: They are a fractional marketing team that collaborates with ski areas and outdoor brands, and they will give your marketing a fresh perspective and better storytelling to supercharge your rebranding or advertising.
00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:41.000
Stuart Winchester: Bonfire can help you rethink your approach in ways that can turbocharge your business.
00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:49.000
Stuart Winchester: For example, Bonfire took on the marketing at one New Hampshire ski area and doubled revenue in just three years.
00:50:49.000 --> 00:51:04.000
Stuart Winchester: When the storm was ready to invest in its first ever digital marketing campaign last year, I worked with Bonfire to make it happen. I could not be happier with the results, and I think you will love working with them as well. To get started, you’ll want to talk to Eric.
00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:21.000
Stuart Winchester: over at Bonfire Collective. He was a co-founder of Bluebird Backcountry Colorado, the first human-powered ski area, so he knows the ski business. You can actually listen to his podcast episode on the Storm Skiing Podcast, long form. Visit bonfirecollective.com.
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:25.000
Stuart Winchester: Or I will be happy to make that connection for you.
00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:28.000
Stuart Winchester: All right, how great was Joe?
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:45.000
Stuart Winchester: This is why I love the new pod, because I can have guys like that on all the time. I have dozens of relationships like that throughout the ski industry. Anytime you’ve listened to a podcast and you’ve heard someone on there and you enjoyed the conversation.
00:51:45.000 --> 00:52:01.000
Stuart Winchester: Whether it was Carl Kapczynski, who runs California Mountain Resorts, or… and owns Mountain High, and Bear Valley, and China Peak, and Dodge Ridge out in California. Or if it was…
00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:15.000
Stuart Winchester: Dustin, who… the president at Copper Mountain, uh, or it was Rob Katz, you know, the Vale CEO. I’m interacting with these people, or… or the folks who represent them, all the time.
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:31.000
Stuart Winchester: I talk to Carl Kabasinski all the time, but I haven’t had him on the podcast in four years. He’s already agreed to come on the new shorter form to talk about all the things going on in his mountains. And that’s what’s great about it. And, you know, one of the concerns that I heard from people when I announced a shorter form pod was.
00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:47.000
Stuart Winchester: Oh, well, I really like when you covered small mountains. Well, this will allow me to do that much more, because I don’t have to commit an entire hour and a half long episode to it, and it doesn’t have to be the whole history of the area. I can just, for example, ask.
00:52:47.000 --> 00:53:02.000
Stuart Winchester: Rick Schmitz from Little Switzerland in Wisconsin to come onto the show and talk about the new quad chairlift that he’s putting up or two new quads putting up in a little Switzerland this summer for winter 2026 to 27.
00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:07.000
Stuart Winchester: So, I want to know what you think. What do you think of the new pod?
00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:14.000
Stuart Winchester: In order to let me know what you think, you leave… go to stormskating.com.
00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:26.000
Stuart Winchester: find the article, it’ll be right there on the front page, that this podcast is hosted on, and you leave a comment. You can only do that if you’re a paid subscriber. Uh…
00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:29.000
Stuart Winchester: I stopped reading social media.
00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:38.000
Stuart Winchester: comments a long time ago, because what I realized, and I liked social media for a while, and I built up a pretty big Twitter following.
00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:42.000
Stuart Winchester: But what I realized is that when anyone in the world.
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:45.000
Stuart Winchester: can say whatever they want.
00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:52.000
Stuart Winchester: Whenever they want, whatever they want, whenever they want, anonymously, they will.
00:53:52.000 --> 00:54:04.000
Stuart Winchester: And it’s a big energy suck. It’s a big mental energy suck, and it brings me down, and it distracts me from my work, and it’s not a good place to put my energy.
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:13.000
Stuart Winchester: But if you are a paid subscriber and you have some skin in this game and you have contributed and you’re supporting the storm.
00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:29.000
Stuart Winchester: You have a right to be heard. You make those comments. I will read them. Some of them I will read on this podcast in this final segment. That’s generally what this will be devoted to, and I’ll react to them. And so you can be part of the show as well.
00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:48.000
Stuart Winchester: If you are a paid subscriber. If not, that’s fine. Sit back, enjoy the show. I know that we all have subscription fatigue, and not all of us can afford everything. So, I appreciate everyone who’s listening. I really, really want to know what you hear about the new format pod. I’m going to be back tomorrow.
00:54:48.000 --> 00:55:05.000
Stuart Winchester: With the president and general manager of Loon Mountain, which last week announced a huge expansion, all Glades that will make Loon the largest ski area in New Hampshire. Sorry, Bretton Woods, but this is what the podcast is for. I’m going to be able to get right to the news.
00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:20.000
Stuart Winchester: Talk to the guy who’s making it happen or at least leading the team that’s making it happen about it in real time as much as possible. So again, if you want to support the storm, a few ways you can do it. The best way, subscribe.
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:35.000
Stuart Winchester: subscription business. What you will get with that is not only the ability to participate in the podcast, but everything below the paywall that I write. And there’s still going to be a lot of writing, mostly analysis now. We’re going to do news mostly on the podcast.
00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:49.000
Stuart Winchester: You can also… see this rad shirt I’m wearing? If you’re… if you’re watching on YouTube or Substack or something else I don’t know about where you can watch it, you can get this yourself. You can order it at the Storm store, uh, at…
00:55:49.000 --> 00:56:07.000
Stuart Winchester: stormskiing.myshopify.com. We have all kinds of stuff there. Hats, hoodies, uh, swag. My wife designed it all. She’s also the editor of the podcast. She’s the best. She’s the voice that you hear at the end. So, uh, you can support the storm in those ways. You can also just follow the storm.
00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:19.000
Stuart Winchester: on YouTube or Instagram, at Storm Ski Journal. Until next time, which will be tomorrow, stay well, stay safe. I’m Stuart Winchester, and I’ll talk to you again very soon.
