This was a great interview asking great questions, and I totally agree with DS that Rob dodged the questions. I do agree with Rob that the question of lift ticket prices sort of exposes one of the fundamental hypocrisies of how we talk about skiing: either the price is too high and not enough people can get access, or the price is too low, resulting in the overcrowding people complain about. I assume that the “destination” resorts like Breck, Whistler, Heavenly are the engines that make Vail go in terms of revenue per visitor. It is therefore reasonable to focus on them with investment and resourcing. But it is undeniable that Vail has failed its smaller resorts. Like Tate, I live in the DC area, and I make the drive to Whitetail or Liberty half a dozen times a season. Those resorts have visibly declined post-pandemic. It’s great that Rob wants people in the industry to have a path to growth and development, but it looks right now that this mostly results in sucking the best people and money out of the smaller resorts, and funneling them into the bigger ones.
@stewart, I really appreciate the tough questions. This is why people pay to subscribe. Mr. Katz missed the opportunity to reset my mind on their company. He failed to admit all mistakes and articulate how it will be fixed. Instead, sales speak the whole way through. He really missed the safety vs capacity issue. He turned it into some kind of class warfare conversation.
I live in the DC area. It may be elevation in part holding back the PA resorts. But the perception is the PA resorts have not done that well under Vail management. I will get an Epic pass on a year I go to UT or CO, but for local skiing I am way ahead to have a season pass at Massanutten and an Indy Pass.
Finally listening to this episode now (lol, life), and I have to agree with this "perception" of Vail's management of the southeast PA resorts. In one small example, the same few years that Vail did the "Epic Lift Upgrade" across basically their entire portfolio, they actually closed and then removed lifts from Liberty and Whitetail (the ones dedicated to their terrain parks), which has led to enormous bottlenecks at the other lifts on the hill - particularly their main out-of-base lifts, which, unlike at the big western mountains, are used all day by pretty much everyone. That same philosophy has extended to basically everything else: trims to parking lot shuttles and maintenance, hours of operation, gear storage, seating areas, rental shops, grab-and-go food, etc. I actually think the snowmaking has been decent (with the exception of the year Whitetail's entire system died mid-season) and is the least of their issues, regardless of what Stuart experienced on his trip a few season ago.
Rob should come to Liberty or Whitetail on an average January or February Saturday (not even a "peak" day or a day following a snowstorm) and see if he thinks the hourlong lines for *everything* are acceptable for a Vail Resorts property. Everyone understands the weather. We are just asking that Vail puts a little money into controlling the the things they *can* control about the experience at these little hills. These podunk places are, after all, the frontline for a lot of those new skiers Rob wants to bring into the sport, as well as the closest mountains to the nation's capital and several very wealthy suburban counties. Alas.
Hey Stuart-Those resorts in WV have a little more elevation than Liberty, Whitetail and the Western PA resorts and I am always amazed how just a couple of thousand feet make a difference in the weather leading to completely different conditions. A buddy of mine did mention that Chip Perfect at Timberline was the reason for their success along with his strong team.
Suggestion for Vail: Blue Knob is supposedly the highest elevation ski resort in PA. And those jokers do good to have it all open after a Blizzard. Might be good for Vail to try to take it over and show us what they can do.
There is a reason it's called Blue Knob....for some reason that place is always cold AF. "Claysburg Air Force Station (1952–1961), a Cold War radar base for monitoring Soviet aircraft, it was deactivated in 1961."
This was a great interview asking great questions, and I totally agree with DS that Rob dodged the questions. I do agree with Rob that the question of lift ticket prices sort of exposes one of the fundamental hypocrisies of how we talk about skiing: either the price is too high and not enough people can get access, or the price is too low, resulting in the overcrowding people complain about. I assume that the “destination” resorts like Breck, Whistler, Heavenly are the engines that make Vail go in terms of revenue per visitor. It is therefore reasonable to focus on them with investment and resourcing. But it is undeniable that Vail has failed its smaller resorts. Like Tate, I live in the DC area, and I make the drive to Whitetail or Liberty half a dozen times a season. Those resorts have visibly declined post-pandemic. It’s great that Rob wants people in the industry to have a path to growth and development, but it looks right now that this mostly results in sucking the best people and money out of the smaller resorts, and funneling them into the bigger ones.
@stewart, I really appreciate the tough questions. This is why people pay to subscribe. Mr. Katz missed the opportunity to reset my mind on their company. He failed to admit all mistakes and articulate how it will be fixed. Instead, sales speak the whole way through. He really missed the safety vs capacity issue. He turned it into some kind of class warfare conversation.
This is the best sound quality yet! Exciting!
I live in the DC area. It may be elevation in part holding back the PA resorts. But the perception is the PA resorts have not done that well under Vail management. I will get an Epic pass on a year I go to UT or CO, but for local skiing I am way ahead to have a season pass at Massanutten and an Indy Pass.
Finally listening to this episode now (lol, life), and I have to agree with this "perception" of Vail's management of the southeast PA resorts. In one small example, the same few years that Vail did the "Epic Lift Upgrade" across basically their entire portfolio, they actually closed and then removed lifts from Liberty and Whitetail (the ones dedicated to their terrain parks), which has led to enormous bottlenecks at the other lifts on the hill - particularly their main out-of-base lifts, which, unlike at the big western mountains, are used all day by pretty much everyone. That same philosophy has extended to basically everything else: trims to parking lot shuttles and maintenance, hours of operation, gear storage, seating areas, rental shops, grab-and-go food, etc. I actually think the snowmaking has been decent (with the exception of the year Whitetail's entire system died mid-season) and is the least of their issues, regardless of what Stuart experienced on his trip a few season ago.
Rob should come to Liberty or Whitetail on an average January or February Saturday (not even a "peak" day or a day following a snowstorm) and see if he thinks the hourlong lines for *everything* are acceptable for a Vail Resorts property. Everyone understands the weather. We are just asking that Vail puts a little money into controlling the the things they *can* control about the experience at these little hills. These podunk places are, after all, the frontline for a lot of those new skiers Rob wants to bring into the sport, as well as the closest mountains to the nation's capital and several very wealthy suburban counties. Alas.
Hey Stuart-Those resorts in WV have a little more elevation than Liberty, Whitetail and the Western PA resorts and I am always amazed how just a couple of thousand feet make a difference in the weather leading to completely different conditions. A buddy of mine did mention that Chip Perfect at Timberline was the reason for their success along with his strong team.
Suggestion for Vail: Blue Knob is supposedly the highest elevation ski resort in PA. And those jokers do good to have it all open after a Blizzard. Might be good for Vail to try to take it over and show us what they can do.
There is a reason it's called Blue Knob....for some reason that place is always cold AF. "Claysburg Air Force Station (1952–1961), a Cold War radar base for monitoring Soviet aircraft, it was deactivated in 1961."