Would like to see some innovation around the season passes for families (think families of six, seven, etc.). The lower tiered mid-week passes are nice, but not practical for families with kids in school and a two hour drive to the mountains. Our only options are weekends and holidays. As a result, we have missed some school to get some economical skiing in, but for middle and high school this isn't a good option. PA offered a snow pass for 4th and 5th graders but was discontinued last year. This allowed three lift tickets at most Pocono hills. Skiing as a family is so awesome, no devices, quality time together. Would love to see mountains get creative to find economical ways to get families on the mountain together.
Agree. I thought the Tamarack Family Pass they announced today was really cool: $1199 for two adults and unlimited dependent children up to age 23. Sounds like that's nowhere near you, however. Maybe an Indy Pass would work for your clan?
I think little Wachusett Mountain in Massachusetts has a number of great season pass tiers and has a benefit reciprocation program with other mountains in the fine print. But being so close to Boston, Worcester, and Providence can mean big crowds despite trying to limit it. They do offer an unlimited nights (with some blackout dates) 7pm-10pm from 12/25-end of seasons for $200. A great locals option.
Vail has taken a lot of heat this year for overcrowding, and a lot of the response online seems to be “I’m going Ikon next year”.
I haven’t visited a Vail mountain yet, but my 2¢ on that move is “the grass ain’t always greener” (at least in CO). Copper is regularly seeing 45 minute lines on Saturdays at American Eagle, parking people at the Conoco station since the lots are full, etc. Similar story at Winter Park: all the free lots full by 8:30 (paid lots now cost _5x_ what they did last season), regularly running lifts they typically only used during holiday crowds (Iron Horse, Challenger, etc.) every weekend, etc.
So I’m curious how it all will play out. Ikon basically didn’t raise prices last year (only the Base pass went up… by $30), but I would be shocked if that stayed true.
Agree. Ikon has a ton of pricing power and the base pass is really generous with WP and Copper. Alterra doesn't own Copper, so I really don't even know why it's unlimited on the Ikon Pass, but that's Powdr's decision to make. I wouldn't be surprised, though, to see at least Winter Park bump up a tier and follow Crystal's lead. Copper is harder because it's in Summit County and a Breck/Keystone pass is the price of a candy bar.
I agree with your grass is greener comment. I think Vail is taking the brunt of the negative press but this phenomenon is effecting all mountains to a degree. The traffic to get up to Gore mountain yesterday morning was about 3miles long. Which for anyone who knows Gore that is about 2.9 miles longer than normal!
I think Vail needs to lead by example. Some adjustments to Epic and I believe they can correct a lot of these issues.
I like the idea of choosing a home mountain and getting limited or weekday access to other mountains. Or implement more stringent reservation systems for all pass holders. That second idea may come with too much backlash though.
Stuart, Amazing how much info you pack into one journal! Superb! As a former Toggenburg regular, employee (race coach) your info on the current closure and status is consistent with what I hear. The current owner got a lot of bad press on the chairlift breakdown at Song which required the local fire department for the evac. It is true that mechanicals were removed and are now at Labrador and Song - snowmaking, lights, probably pumps. There is a group that is interested in buying Togg and operating it as a ski area which the current owners have said they will not allow. There are stickers at local restaurants proclaiming open Tog. There is a local group w petition attempting to open Togg. Probably the folks you’re talking to. Stay tuned - it could get interesting. Are forces lurking? The Shadow knows!
It is a really sad story, and one that I hope has a happy ending down the road. If you hear anything popping, feel free to email me at skiing@substack.com any time (or just reply to any email I send).
Great article as always. I'm curious to see what Indy Pass mountains will offer a season pass + Indy add on next year. I could see myself anchoring somewhere in the Poconos for easy drive time from NY, but would want to be able to explore a bit when I can. Rest up!
Would like to see some innovation around the season passes for families (think families of six, seven, etc.). The lower tiered mid-week passes are nice, but not practical for families with kids in school and a two hour drive to the mountains. Our only options are weekends and holidays. As a result, we have missed some school to get some economical skiing in, but for middle and high school this isn't a good option. PA offered a snow pass for 4th and 5th graders but was discontinued last year. This allowed three lift tickets at most Pocono hills. Skiing as a family is so awesome, no devices, quality time together. Would love to see mountains get creative to find economical ways to get families on the mountain together.
Agree. I thought the Tamarack Family Pass they announced today was really cool: $1199 for two adults and unlimited dependent children up to age 23. Sounds like that's nowhere near you, however. Maybe an Indy Pass would work for your clan?
I think little Wachusett Mountain in Massachusetts has a number of great season pass tiers and has a benefit reciprocation program with other mountains in the fine print. But being so close to Boston, Worcester, and Providence can mean big crowds despite trying to limit it. They do offer an unlimited nights (with some blackout dates) 7pm-10pm from 12/25-end of seasons for $200. A great locals option.
Vail has taken a lot of heat this year for overcrowding, and a lot of the response online seems to be “I’m going Ikon next year”.
I haven’t visited a Vail mountain yet, but my 2¢ on that move is “the grass ain’t always greener” (at least in CO). Copper is regularly seeing 45 minute lines on Saturdays at American Eagle, parking people at the Conoco station since the lots are full, etc. Similar story at Winter Park: all the free lots full by 8:30 (paid lots now cost _5x_ what they did last season), regularly running lifts they typically only used during holiday crowds (Iron Horse, Challenger, etc.) every weekend, etc.
So I’m curious how it all will play out. Ikon basically didn’t raise prices last year (only the Base pass went up… by $30), but I would be shocked if that stayed true.
Agree. Ikon has a ton of pricing power and the base pass is really generous with WP and Copper. Alterra doesn't own Copper, so I really don't even know why it's unlimited on the Ikon Pass, but that's Powdr's decision to make. I wouldn't be surprised, though, to see at least Winter Park bump up a tier and follow Crystal's lead. Copper is harder because it's in Summit County and a Breck/Keystone pass is the price of a candy bar.
I agree with your grass is greener comment. I think Vail is taking the brunt of the negative press but this phenomenon is effecting all mountains to a degree. The traffic to get up to Gore mountain yesterday morning was about 3miles long. Which for anyone who knows Gore that is about 2.9 miles longer than normal!
I think Vail needs to lead by example. Some adjustments to Epic and I believe they can correct a lot of these issues.
I like the idea of choosing a home mountain and getting limited or weekday access to other mountains. Or implement more stringent reservation systems for all pass holders. That second idea may come with too much backlash though.
You are amazing. I don’t know how you do this.
One comment tonight, VIP lines suck. What are we getting to … rich vs. ultra rich? Must all skiers be jerks? I hope not.
Finally, hope that leg is healing well. I am from Maine and was so sorry to read about that.
John
Well that's one heck of a compliment. Thank you!
I appreciate the well-wishes. The folks in Maine were incredible. Enjoy your spring turns!
Stuart, Amazing how much info you pack into one journal! Superb! As a former Toggenburg regular, employee (race coach) your info on the current closure and status is consistent with what I hear. The current owner got a lot of bad press on the chairlift breakdown at Song which required the local fire department for the evac. It is true that mechanicals were removed and are now at Labrador and Song - snowmaking, lights, probably pumps. There is a group that is interested in buying Togg and operating it as a ski area which the current owners have said they will not allow. There are stickers at local restaurants proclaiming open Tog. There is a local group w petition attempting to open Togg. Probably the folks you’re talking to. Stay tuned - it could get interesting. Are forces lurking? The Shadow knows!
It is a really sad story, and one that I hope has a happy ending down the road. If you hear anything popping, feel free to email me at skiing@substack.com any time (or just reply to any email I send).
Great article as always. I'm curious to see what Indy Pass mountains will offer a season pass + Indy add on next year. I could see myself anchoring somewhere in the Poconos for easy drive time from NY, but would want to be able to explore a bit when I can. Rest up!
Thank you! All Indy Pass partners will offer the Indy+ add on (you actually buy it through Indy).